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It seems many pond owners in the southern half of the US could use southern flounder as a bonus fish for their ponds. Flounder have proven to thrive in pure fresh water and have pretty good cold tolerance. I personally have seen southern flounder thriving and growing nicely in fresh water ponds for several years running. I have researched online and found several university programs have concluded the same result. It seems ponds that ice over all winter might be out of the running but if you have a pond that does not ice over all winter long your pond could be a candidate. I found a research paper online testing the lower lethal temps of Southern flounder at various salinities. The one that matters here is the fresh water results. I will give the short version of the results. They started at 20C (68F) then took the water temps down to 4C (39.2F) and kept the fish at that temp for ten days before bring them back up to 20C (68F)and they had 10% mortality. It seems that water temps of 40F is what your pond should not get below at least for more than a few days. I know many ponds in the lower half of the US might be in this category and this could be a new opportunity to expand your ponds potential. The real issue is sourcing them at this point. If you are in coastal state you could consider a wild harvest and release. You will need to check you state laws regarding this. I checked here in Florida the with the fish and wildlife law enforcement. They said if a flounder was harvested legally there is not law against me releasing it in my 'Private" fresh water pond. (They also informed me it was a salt water fish and it will die) I have found some hatchery Programs online, you could check and see if they have any to offer for sale. The CCA/AEP Marine Development Center in Corpus Christi, Perry R. Bass Marine Fisheries Research Station in Palacios, and Sea Center Texas in Lake Jackson, in conjunction with the University of Texas Marine Science Institute (UTMSI),North Carolina State UNIV Aquaculture Dept. and UNC Wilmington's Wrightsville Beach facility. So, It seems if your pond gets into the mid to low 40's during the winter and you can get a few flounder it is worth trying to establish a few bonus fish for your pond much like is done with HSB. They, as with the HSB should not be able to reproduce in your pond as the reproduction process does require higher salinity. I am not a scientist nor a biologist, this is just an idea I tried with good success and wanted to share with others. SOUTHERN FLOUNDER This is a picture of a flounder caught from a fresh water pond 
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Your idea as you've tested it, sounds like it could be an interesting option for southern ponds. Creative. The main draw back, if there is one, that I see is the flounder lies nestled in the bottom sediments as it's main habitat. Many freshwater ponds, even those aerated ponds, have anoxic H2S sediment at 1" depth and below in a majority of the pond's bottom area. This will limit the usable habitat for the unique bottom dwelling flounder.
Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/26/16 11:19 AM.
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Bill,
That is in interesting insight. The test pond they have been in for awhile is half acre and does have a good amount of silt. The edges and out to several feet of water seems to be clear of it. The silt seems to have settled into the deepest holes. I have seen flounder laying on top of hard structure and grass /weed beds too as well as laying flat on the bottom. Another pond I know of was actually pretty weedy and had some muck. You could see cleared out areas where they had been once they vacated a spot. I am sure the entire pond bottom is not utilized but so far things seem to be progressing. I suppose if a pond was 100% much or silt bottom with no clay or harder type bottom they would not be quite as happy.
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A lot still needs to be learned about flounder in freshwater habitats. Very likely, they like many fish are adaptable. I think the concept and practice is a good idea especially if one has access to small flounder and wants to get them to a larger edible size. A freshwater pond could be a place to do it.
Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/26/16 12:12 PM.
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Bill,
I agree 100%. I am kind of hoping a few pond bosses might take the challenge and try the idea out to get some more real life results .
Flounder are indeed very good to eat. They are also pretty fun to catch and you can show off your unusual pond inhabitant if you like catch and release.
Last edited by BobbyRice; 01/26/16 12:17 PM.
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Well Bobby it looks like I don't need ta wait for Bills 2 cents in person. Interesting idea that you and I have been discussing for over a yr now but it's nice to put it up here for others benefit. Good job.
Do nature a favor, spay/neuter your pets and any weird friends or relatives.
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Flounder would be a blast to have in the pond but logistics of getting them there would be interesting, wondering what side would transfer better
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Flounder would be a blast to have in the pond but logistics of getting them there would be interesting, wondering what side would transfer better getting just a few is very easy, they are very hardy. I simple cooler with a bubbler will travel them very well. they transfer better with the white side down.
Goofing off is a slang term for engaging in recreation or an idle pastime while obligations of work or society are neglected........... Wikipedia
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Bobby! Reallllllly? You been hangin out with Bob-O too much!
I guess if you could get some from a hatchery that would be better cause here in Texas if YA caught them they would have to meet legal size to retain
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It seems many pond owners in the southern half of the US could use southern flounder as a bonus fish for their ponds. Flounder have proven to thrive in pure fresh water and have pretty good cold tolerance. I personally have seen southern flounder thriving and growing nicely in fresh water ponds for several years running. I have researched online and found several university programs have concluded the same result. It seems ponds that ice over all winter might be out of the running but if you have a pond that does not ice over all winter long your pond could be a candidate. I found a research paper online testing the lower lethal temps of Southern flounder at various salinities. The one that matters here is the fresh water results. I will give the short version of the results. They started at 20C (68F) then took the water temps down to 4C (39.2F) and kept the fish at that temp for ten days before bring them back up to 20C (68F)and they had 10% mortality. It seems that water temps of 40F is what your pond should not get below at least for more than a few days. I know many ponds in the lower half of the US might be in this category and this could be a new opportunity to expand your ponds potential. The real issue is sourcing them at this point. If you are in coastal state you could consider a wild harvest and release. You will need to check you state laws regarding this. I checked here in Florida the with the fish and wildlife law enforcement. They said if a flounder was harvested legally there is not law against me releasing it in my 'Private" fresh water pond. (They also informed me it was a salt water fish and it will die) I have found some hatchery Programs online, you could check and see if they have any to offer for sale. The CCA/AEP Marine Development Center in Corpus Christi, Perry R. Bass Marine Fisheries Research Station in Palacios, and Sea Center Texas in Lake Jackson, in conjunction with the University of Texas Marine Science Institute (UTMSI),North Carolina State UNIV Aquaculture Dept. and UNC Wilmington's Wrightsville Beach facility. So, It seems if your pond gets into the mid to low 40's during the winter and you can get a few flounder it is worth trying to establish a few bonus fish for your pond much like is done with HSB. They, as with the HSB should not be able to reproduce in your pond as the reproduction process does require higher salinity. I am not a scientist nor a biologist, this is just an idea I tried with good success and wanted to share with others. SOUTHERN FLOUNDER This is a picture of a flounder caught from a fresh water pond Impressive, Bobby!!! What in the world do those things forage on? I bet they scare the hell out of the BG. Do they pellet feed? Charlie
...when in doubt...set the hook...
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Stickem'
They have primarily been eating blue gill and tilapia with some GSH mixed in. The GSH numbers are low so its mostly BG and tilapia. In fact I know a small pond that was invested with stunted BG and Tilapia and the owner put in one Flounder and her has grown a lot on a diet of just those two forage fish. I'm sure they would take down any thing that it can grab and fit into its mouth like most fish.
From what I have read the ones the universities have been spawning and growing are on pellets.
Last edited by BobbyRice; 01/26/16 06:26 PM.
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The name "Southern Flounder" suggests there is a "Northern Flounder." If there is, I wonder if it would be as adaptable to fresh water and do better in our northern ponds than the southern variety?
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Stickem'
They have primarily been eating blue gill and tilapia with some GSH mixed in. The GSH numbers are low so its mostly BG and tilapia. In fact I know a small pond that was invested with stunted BG and Tilapia and the owner put in one Flounder and her has grown a lot on a diet of just those two forage fish. I'm sure they would take down any thing that it can grab and fit into its mouth like most fish.
From what I have read the ones the universities have been spawning and growing are on pellets. Bobby, Very interesting. You may have stumbled on a resolution for a "stunted" pond. I think that is awesome. Such a beautiful specimen in the above pic. Keep us posted on your progress...
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The flounder or fluke does not have a true northern counterpart. Their geographic range spans a large north to south range along the east coast. There are at least a couple species that qualify as summer flounder. This next part pretty well explains why the flounders are called summer flounder. "Many fluke(flounder) come close inshore during the warm half of the year (summer), when they are caught regularly both along open coasts and in bays and harbors, the smaller sizes often from docks and bridges, and some even run up into fresh water rivers. But the great majority of the population, especially of the larger ones, lie farther offshore even at that season, in depths of 8 to 10 fathoms and deeper, at least in the northern part of the fluke's geographic range, as illustrated by the fact that nearly 40 times as many (by weight) are landed in New Jersey and in New York by otter trawlers as from the many pound nets operating there.[7] And all of those that do come close inshore from Chesapeake Bay northward move offshore again at some time during the autumn, presumably to escape winter chilling."
Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/26/16 09:17 PM.
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Fascinating stuff! Please keep us posted.
That said, I'd be afraid to put some in my pond. I am already too prone to floundering around it.
7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160
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Bobby, awhile back your wife filmed one buried that just exploded up to grab dinner. Wonder if ya have that film stashed and could re-post it?
Flounder have one eye on each side till they start hiding in the sand when one eye revolves around to the top of the fish.
Pat, you'de be surprised how far and easy ya can haul some fish with a bubbler. Like 1200 miles with only one water change. Shoot, I bet Rex could do it.
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Bobby do you think smaller flounder or larger have a better chance of survival being hauled say 175 miles?
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What I know as the Summer Flounder (Paralichthys dentatus) is what Bill is discussing (I Think) and also goes by the common name of fluke. The range of this fish tends to me more northern than the Southern Flounder (Paralichthys lethostigma). Their ranges overlap but the numbers are low here in my area. They are very similar and ID can be tricky. I have investigated briefly and it is clear they have a wide range of salinity tolerance but I am not sure about zero salinity. I would think due the range being more northerly they would have be more cold tolerant but I am not sure. Someone up on the northern half of the east coast should try it out.
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Bobby do you think smaller flounder or larger have a better chance of survival being hauled say 175 miles? I think it would not make much of a difference unless you are talking very large fish or vary small fish. The size limit here in FL is 12 inches, fish this size are pretty easy to transport. How ever males max out at about 14 inches and females get a GREAT deal larger. I targeted 16 inch fish to increase my odds of getting a female so I can hope to get fish up to 30 inches one day. Short answer I don't think it matters a bunch. I have had good luck using flat bottomed solid colored storage bins with a lid and a wally world bubbler.
Goofing off is a slang term for engaging in recreation or an idle pastime while obligations of work or society are neglected........... Wikipedia
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