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Joined: Jul 2008
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Lunker
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Lunker
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it's 30 degrees with a heavy frost this morning. feeder went off at 7:30 and 8:00 EST and the fish are still feeding well. it is supposed to be a little cooler today and tomorrow than it has been and then warm back up with rain. this has been the best growing season anyone could ask for with a 1 year old! the fish have only had one slow feeding period so far and that was the week around thanksgiving when it got cold for a week. i snapped a couple of pictures about a minute after the 8 oclock feeding went off, i kinda missed the most aggressive first minute feeding but you get the point. i had to brave up leaving the window and walking on to the back porch barefoot on the frost.  
Scott Hanners
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Hall of Fame  Lunker
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I hate to burst your bubble but you may end up seriously stressing your fish according to many experts. Sure they are feeding now but as the water cools they will have trouble digesting the dry feed due to their poikilothermic nature and slowed down digestion. (Same temp as water). The thinking is if digestion is slow enough the feed will not only not digest, but will start to decompose creating gas and unwanted consequences.
If fish die you will probably never see them this time of year to know the consequences.
The general rule is to stop feeding at 50 F. or below water temps. Growth is pretty much nil below that and it's a waste of feed too.
Not trying to be a downer just telling you like it is.
Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 12/19/15 09:31 AM.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Joined: Jul 2008
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Lunker
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Lunker
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cecil, i agree. my water temp is probably in the high 50's or low 60's. i don't have a thermometer in the pond though. after today and tomorrow's cold snap the air temp is going to be in the 70's during the day and mid 50's at night so water should stay warm enough for a while. i quit feeding at my old pond during the coldest times, but the 2 larger pond management companies in our area recommended that i run the feeder year round with maybe just one late evening feeding. it got to the point in the old pond that they would stop feeding on the coldest days. i stocked trout one season just so i could leave feeder going during the cold and i was hoping they would eat even on the days the bg didn't.
Scott Hanners
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Joined: Jan 2008
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Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent Lunker
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Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,883 Likes: 117 |
Scott you have the BG to prove your management plan is working. I'm stoked for you and impressed with your results. Please keep it up and keep us apprised of your challenges and progress.
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau ![[Linked Image from i1261.photobucket.com]](http://i1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii582/teehjaeh57/I_subscribe_zps69249d43.gif)
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Hall of Fame Lunker
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cecil, i agree. my water temp is probably in the high 50's or low 60's. i don't have a thermometer in the pond though. after today and tomorrow's cold snap the air temp is going to be in the 70's during the day and mid 50's at night so water should stay warm enough for a while. i quit feeding at my old pond during the coldest times, but the 2 larger pond management companies in our area recommended that i run the feeder year round with maybe just one late evening feeding. it got to the point in the old pond that they would stop feeding on the coldest days. i stocked trout one season just so i could leave feeder going during the cold and i was hoping they would eat even on the days the bg didn't. My bad I thought your water temps were lower. It's cold up here now with some snow and ice. However it will be in the 50's next week. Haven't even put in the winter aeration yet and I'm not worried.
Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 12/19/15 02:41 PM.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Joined: Jul 2008
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Lunker
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Lunker
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2.75" of fast rain made the pond muddy! looks like the feeding has ceased now even though it is still warm.
Scott Hanners
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Joined: Sep 2013
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Joined: Sep 2013
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A fish will absolutely NOT eat itself to death no matter the water temperature.
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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A fish will absolutely NOT eat itself to death no matter the water temperature. Are you 100% absolutely sure?  
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Hall of Fame 2015 Lunker
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Hall of Fame 2015 Lunker
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Hall of Fame Lunker
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A fish will absolutely NOT eat itself to death no matter the water temperature. Not saying they will. Just saying eating dry feed in cold water or in water that experiences a rapid drop in temps after feeding could cause stress due to digestion issues. Their digestive tracts did not evolve with dry feed but they still have the instinct to feed in cold water. Of course they won't eat as much in cold water, but according to some experienced fish farmers I know, it doesn't take much dry food to cause issues if there is a rapid water temp drop after feeding. I know a trout farmer in Harrisville, Michigan (Jerry Kahn Cedar Brook Trout Farm) that was freaking out because a guy that was rearing a few thousand trout for him in his pond, decided to feed them when the ice temporarily went out in the middle of winter. His head about exploded! According to Jerry he could have killed the trout. That said I have fed my trout in open water caused by a diffuser and didn't have any issues. Normally however I feed them lightly only once a week if that. Any more would be a waste of feed. I've actually gone an entire winter without feeding the trout and they came out of winter just fine. So... Just repeating what some experienced fish farmers have told me. Maybe they're wrong but...
Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 01/01/16 05:13 PM.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Joined: Jun 2008
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Ambassador Lunker
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Ambassador Lunker
Joined: Jun 2008
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"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,692
Hall of Fame 2015 Lunker
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Hall of Fame 2015 Lunker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,692 |
What constitutes dry feed? Any indication of what we should look for?
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Joined: Aug 2002
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Hall of Fame Lunker
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Hall of Fame Lunker
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What constitutes dry feed? Any indication of what we should look for? 13 percent or less moisture. Most is about 10 percent. Look for?
Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 01/01/16 08:20 PM.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1
Hall of Fame Lunker
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Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1 |
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,692
Hall of Fame 2015 Lunker
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Hall of Fame 2015 Lunker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,692 |
What constitutes dry feed? Any indication of what we should look for? 13 percent or less moisture. Most is about 10 percent. Look for? How do you measure moisture in your feed?
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Joined: Aug 2002
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Hall of Fame Lunker
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Hall of Fame Lunker
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What constitutes dry feed? Any indication of what we should look for? 13 percent or less moisture. Most is about 10 percent. Look for? How do you measure moisture in your feed? I don't. Just going by published material. If I wanted to I suppose I would weigh it, dry it like the feed mills do corn and beans, and then weight it again? Both Cody and I now hydrate all our feed for our pond fish. We get a much better feeding response, but then we also hand feed.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,575 Likes: 402
Moderator
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...The general rule is to stop feeding at 50 F. or below water temps. Growth is pretty much nil below that and it's a waste of feed too... For those of you who winter BG in cages, if you keep BG caged over the winter, are those fed at less than 50 degrees, or are they left to whatever forage may or may not enter the cage? We normally have 2-3 months of sub 50 water temp, and I'm trying to wrap my head around them not getting adequate calories prior to spring warm ups when love is in the air. I'm guessing if you do feed at less than 50 degrees, hydrated food is the best option?
AL
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Al, I've done both with my caged fish...fed hydrated AQ only when the water was open, and let them fend for themselves all winter, open or not.
No scientific data, but just my eyeballs. I can't tell any difference. I'm not feeding the BG's I have caged this winter.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1
Hall of Fame Lunker
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Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1 |
...The general rule is to stop feeding at 50 F. or below water temps. Growth is pretty much nil below that and it's a waste of feed too... For those of you who winter BG in cages, if you keep BG caged over the winter, are those fed at less than 50 degrees, or are they left to whatever forage may or may not enter the cage? We normally have 2-3 months of sub 50 water temp, and I'm trying to wrap my head around them not getting adequate calories prior to spring warm ups when love is in the air. I'm guessing if you do feed at less than 50 degrees, hydrated food is the best option? I never fed my caged winter fish and it didn't seem to hurt them. Apparently their metabolism is low they can subsist on fat reserves. I never cage large bluegills anymore period. They fight and get stressed. Only use cages for spawing YP anymore.
Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 01/02/16 01:48 PM.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1
Hall of Fame Lunker
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Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
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Al, I've done both with my caged fish...fed hydrated AQ only when the water was open, and let them fend for themselves all winter, open or not.
No scientific data, but just my eyeballs. I can't tell any difference. I'm not feeding the BG's I have caged this winter. Ditto.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,575 Likes: 402
Moderator
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Moderator
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,575 Likes: 402 |
AL
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,692
Hall of Fame 2015 Lunker
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Hall of Fame 2015 Lunker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,692 |
I was wondering if you guy's over wintered fish in cages in your ponds. Guess that question is answered.
There is a 24 acre sand pit that MSU leased and set up net pens for a few years for Salmonids, but my perception never considered a smaller BOW for an application like this.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 29,788 Likes: 1295
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 29,788 Likes: 1295 |
I've overwintered fish in cages and not fed them. They seem to come out a bit skinnier than the fish in the pond, but not by a great deal. I guess Zooplankton, Copepods and other critters are in enough abundance in my pond to overwinter them.
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 117
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 117 |
A fish will absolutely NOT eat itself to death no matter the water temperature. Not saying they will. Just saying eating dry feed in cold water or in water that experiences a rapid drop in temps after feeding could cause stress due to digestion issues. Their digestive tracts did not evolve with dry feed but they still have the instinct to feed in cold water. Of course they won't eat as much in cold water, but according to some experienced fish farmers I know, it doesn't take much dry food to cause issues if there is a rapid water temp drop after feeding. I know a trout farmer in Harrisville, Michigan (Jerry Kahn Cedar Brook Trout Farm) that was freaking out because a guy that was rearing a few thousand trout for him in his pond, decided to feed them when the ice temporarily went out in the middle of winter. His head about exploded! According to Jerry he could have killed the trout. That said I have fed my trout in open water caused by a diffuser and didn't have any issues. Normally however I feed them lightly only once a week if that. Any more would be a waste of feed. I've actually gone an entire winter without feeding the trout and they came out of winter just fine. So... Just repeating what some experienced fish farmers have told me. Maybe they're wrong but... There's a thread here where we all went back and forth on this for days. I continued to feed my fish pellets through the entire winter. By February some had nearly doubled in size. The growth rate was mind blowing. I have no scientific data to support this claim, only the photos on the thread offered as proof. The early spring spawn was amazing. I had thousands upon thousands of baby coppernose which the bass went crazy on throughout the year and grew really fast. My bio-system isn't two years old yet and wont be until may of this year. I have some 2.5 to 3 pound bass now, that were added as fingerlings september of 2014. Guess how many died or ate themselves to death. 0 - none. FROM THIS  TO THIS  And from this  TO THIS  And this 
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