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Joined: Aug 2014
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Joined: Aug 2014
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Joined: Jul 2005
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Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,596 Likes: 36 |
If you don't want to use chemicals have you thought about pond dye? Add dyes this fall and then refresh the dye in February.
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 27
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OP
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 27 |
Don't want to use chemicals, but will if works without killing the fish. Any recommendations on what and how to use. Assume fall/winter not the best time of the year? early spring the best?
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,663 Likes: 884
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,663 Likes: 884 |
When you say you added triploid grass carp per specs, how many did you add?
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 27
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OP
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 27 |
12 per acre, 36 total. I can see at least a dozen per visit with fish appearing to be in the 10-15 lb. range. Maybe they are getting too fat and lazy? I have been accused of same.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,663 Likes: 884
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,663 Likes: 884 |
Up the amount of GC by about 4 per surface acre. See what happens then. Do you know for sure what size pond you have? i.e. measure it?
Google acme planimeter and see if it's on there.
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080 Likes: 1
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080 Likes: 1 |
This one is very interesting to me. Been scratching my head on it today. I see it as how many GC are required to "mow the lawn" and then "keep the lawn mowed" as two different numbers of GC. Does it make sense to help the GC out with either herbicide or mechanical removal of the bulk of the problem and then just stock to "keep the lawn mowed?"
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,511
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,511 |
That's what I did, Bill. When I moved here in March, 2012 the CT was so bad you couldn't row a boat in the pond. Treated with Fluridone in June 2012, followed with stocking 8, 12" GC in the fall. Follow up treatment again with Fluridone in Spring 2013 and to date my pond is clean. The GC are huge yet rarely seen. I'd remove them if I could catch them and restock at 12" if needed. I believe the way it's worked for me is that the GC have kept the lawn mowed .
Keith - Still Lovin Livin https://youtu.be/o-R41Rfx0k0(a short video tribute to the PB members we met on our 5 week fishing adventure) Formerly: 2ac LMB,HSB,BG,HBG,RES
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Joined: Jan 2012
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Joined: Jan 2012
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would loading it down with tilapia in the spring help eat some of it?
Goofing off is a slang term for engaging in recreation or an idle pastime while obligations of work or society are neglected........... Wikipedia
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080 Likes: 1
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Joined: Oct 2014
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CP, Is stocking crawfish an option for you? Many have reported a healthy crawfish population wiping out a lot of vegetation.
Has it been confirmed that your vegetation is in fact coontail? I read back thru the thread and didn't see that question answered definitively.
Last edited by Bill D.; 11/02/15 08:49 AM.
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,511
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Joined: May 2012
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Good question, Bill!
IN CP's pics I don't see the whorls commonly found on Coontail. To me it appears to be Chara, which I understand to be an algae.
IIRC, one way to check to see if it's Chara is to pinch it and see if it puts off a foul smell.
Keith - Still Lovin Livin https://youtu.be/o-R41Rfx0k0(a short video tribute to the PB members we met on our 5 week fishing adventure) Formerly: 2ac LMB,HSB,BG,HBG,RES
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Joined: Apr 2002
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Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Apr 2002
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Has it been confirmed that your vegetation is in fact coontail? I read back thru the thread and didn't see that question answered definitively. No doubt, it is indeed coontail.
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Joined: Oct 2014
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Joined: Oct 2014
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Has it been confirmed that your vegetation is in fact coontail? I read back thru the thread and didn't see that question answered definitively. No doubt, it is indeed coontail. Thanks for the confirmation Kelly. You are definitely a pro on vegetation so, what is your recommendation to get it under control and then sustain?
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 27
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OP
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 27 |
Thanks very much for the responses to this thread. I can confirm based on both Pond Boss expertise and TPW Dept. opinions that vegetation is Pond Weed. Given my perspective of the feedback so far I would like to develop a plan going forward for a "mow the lawn" / "kill the weeds" approach. Add some young bloods to my grass carp herd and supplement with some selective herbicide application in the spring. I would appreciate any commentary on the following plans.
> Spring 2016 - add additional 20 grass carp to the pond (I have a TPW permit for 25 fish). My pond is 3-4 acres with a depth of 12 - 15 ft. on the dam side of the pond. I would estimate that I currently have 6-10 lg. fat carp cruising the pond.
> Spring 2016 - Apply aquatic herbicide (either Flouridone (Sonar) or Endothal (Aqualhol - copper compound mix needed?)). My assumption is that vegetation should be actively growing before application and amount/application method should follow label directions.
I have raked the pond before and do not wish to pursue this option going forward as it is very labor and time sensitive and concerned that I may be simply spreading the problem.
I really appreciate the PB community input and counsel on this issue and am happy to serve as a "case study" for those afflicted with similar challenges. I will document a plan based another round of feedback and update on implementation and results in 2016. Thanks again and look forward to anymore questions.
Overall the rains of 2015 have been wonderful for my Parker county pond as it is full, family and friends are enjoying catching lots of LMB and BG, and habitat is thriving (including coontail). Need to improve the size of my LMB's but that's another subject for a different thread.
-- Coolpond
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,663 Likes: 884 |
Go here and measure your pond to know it's size for sure. http://acme.com/planimeter/ Depending on the amount of weeds you want to regrow in the pond after the herbicide treatment, you might need more or less Triploid Grass Carp. For complete control, 12-15 per acre would do it if you have a lot of plants. So, you can see how the difference between 3 and 4 acres is critical. It's also critical for applying herbicide. You also have to get a good idea of the depth profile of the pond to correctly figure out how many gallons of water are in your pond, especially with Fluridone. If you think you have 4 acres and only have 3, and apply as if you have 4, it will cost a LOT more. You can't spot treat with it, the whole lake has to be treated, and you should keep the concentration at 90 parts per billion for a minimum of 45 days. You could also use Diquat with a copper kicker and a surfactant.
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 27
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OP
Joined: Nov 2014
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Joined: May 2014
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Joined: May 2014
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This definitely does not look like pondweed of any kind. To me it looks very much like Chara. Cara is an algae and is best treated with Chelated copper like that in cutrine granular. If you use a liquid cutrine it can work as well but does not get as much contact time. Cutrine is very safe and will not kill your fish. You can always get a fish kill if you kill to many weeds at one time however this is easily prevented by treating one part of your pond at a time.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,800 Likes: 69
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent Lunker
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Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,800 Likes: 69 |
Coontail - looks similar to chara. Follow Esshup's advice on treatment - PM him, he can provide treatment at low cost and walk you through application.
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,326 Likes: 307
Moderator
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Moderator
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,326 Likes: 307 |
This one is very interesting to me. Been scratching my head on it today. I see it as how many GC are required to "mow the lawn" and then "keep the lawn mowed" as two different numbers of GC. Does it make sense to help the GC out with either herbicide or mechanical removal of the bulk of the problem and then just stock to "keep the lawn mowed?" Bill, this is what I'm doing as well. I had a very severe coontail problem, but only stocked GC at half the recommended rate. They will muddy the water, so I didn't want to deal with too many for the next 4-5 years. Aggressive herbicide applications this year, and hopefully the GC will be able to handle most of the coontail next year.
AL
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,488 Likes: 2
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,488 Likes: 2 |
It's coontail. Chara doesn't possess forked branchlets.
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 27
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OP
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 27 |
Thanks once again Kelly. I will not ask again.
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,488 Likes: 2
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,488 Likes: 2 |
Thanks once again Kelly. I will not ask again. CP: NEVER hesitate to ask questions until you're satisfied; and preferably before you invest in any control-measures. I'm not always right (just ask my wife), but I'll always state if any uncertainty exists - which isn't the case this time. Let me know if have any remaining questions concerning control-options.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,800 Likes: 69
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent Lunker
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Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,800 Likes: 69 |
CP - for what it's worth, I'd say 90% of us [including myself] find chara and coontail very similar and difficult to differentiate.
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau
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