Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Need Help on 60 acre Lake

I would like some advice, opinions about a 60 acre lake in central Indiana that I am currently the Lake Chairman and how I can get it back on track to producing trophy largemouth again. Sorry if this is long. Real quick history, the lake is really 2 old gravel pits that are joined by a small channel, both pits are 30 acres or so in size. One of the pits is 35 feet deep and the other is 55 feet deep. The gravel pits were there since the 1970's and were left untouched until 2003 when the lakes were bought and developed for around 80 homes. I talked with the the owner of ASAP aquatics who did the weed control and he told me in 2003 the lakes were a fisherman's paradise, all kinds of weedgrowth ect, lots of large fish. The weeds were eradicated in order to sell lots and were gone until around 2005 when curly leaf pondweed showed up one spring. I moved in 2006 and there were extensive and thick areas of weeds, fishing was incredible 5-7lb largemouth were caught almost everytime you went out fishing no kidding. Of course the homeowners that don't fish wanted the weeds gone so all the vegetation was killed and around 250 grass carp were placed. Now it's 2015 so far I've caught 2 bass around 5lbs and that's it, there are big crappies, big bluegills, big yellow bass, nice walleyes (sorry about 1500 7-10 inch walleyes) were stocked in 2006-2007 but the bass average 13-16 inches and I have not seen a 6lber in years. Need help. Thanks.

....continuing. There are gizzard shad in the lake. The Lake Association has probably placed over 30-40 artificial habitat structures ranging from willow bushes to Christmas trees to Honey Hole habitat, but it's not the same as good weedgrowth in my opinion. The problem is the size of the lake and trying to remove the small bass is a monumental task, I need another answer. Here is what I have come up with.

A. Start bowfishing the grass carp and hope the weeds come back then do controlled killing of the vegetation.

B. Continue adding structures every year in hopes of providing enough cover to allow bass to grow.

C.Introduce Hybrid Stripers to eat the small bass. Ideas??

....continuing. This lake has so much potential that it's really sad to see the fishery the way it is. There are ledges, flats, steep drop offs, old road beds you name it, there are floating boat docks for every home that does provide some cover. If any of the moderators or experts on this website would be interested in doing a study at this lake I would be totally open to that. Thanks.

Welcome to Pond Boss.

Technically, the grass carp that were stocked should be triploid, or sterile, so they won't reproduce. Good news there is that as grass carp get older, they get more lazy when it comes to eradicating vegetation. So, you may not have as much of a problem there as you think. You can still get rid of each one that's caught, as basis policy.

Electroshocking may be a good way to cull a lot of LMB, but that has a cost.

With the LMB culling, the bolstering of the forage base should be part of the plan.

Perhaps a large stocking of 5-6" bluegill, along with habitat placement.

Also, are you doing any pellet feeding?

This can help greatly.

The Gizzard shad will overpopulate. Northern bass won't consistently be large enough to eat the adult GS. A light rotenone treatment can be done to kill the majority of GS, but they will be back. In a local lake, during the last survey that the DNR did, GS made up over 60% of the fish population in the lake.

Stocking HSB will help, as the GS prefer more open water areas, away from the cover that the LMB prefer, so will stocking pure stripers like they did in Cecil Hardin Lake.

Not having the weedy cover makes the LMB cruise all over the lake and doesn't help concentrate them in areas where they can be targeted.

It would help if you could start measuring the length and weight of the bass, and keep a log. There is a relative weight chart in the archives, and if the LMB are underweight, then more should be removed.

I agree, a large BOW like that, an electroshock survey will be the best bet. Without knowing the fish population dynamics, you don't really know where to start. During the survey, I would tell whoever shocks it that you want every GS that floats up to be removed from the lake.

Wow what a great website, yea I do pellet feeding off my dock but that's a small area relative to the lake itself. The problem is compliance getting other people to do it, I have thought about adding solar powered pellet feeders around the lake but this has to come out of a lake budget. It's such a pain dealing with non fisherman trying to explain things to them. I pellet feed every evening when I get home from the Dental Office and have quite a nice stock of local bluegills.

From the fish description, it sounds like it is light on forage and heavy on predators. An e-shock survey will tell you for sure. Remember, an angling survey just surveys the fish that will bite, an electroshock survey will show you the fish that won't bite too.

Totally agree, I guess I'm a little skeptical of shocking studies because lots of bass suspend in the middle of the pits they can be seen on sonar and caught as well. IMO a gill net is a much better way to survey a lake but that's a hard sell and it does kill fish. How deep will a shock survey go in the water column? I realize there will always be fish that won't bite but I used to see wolfpacks of 4-5 lbers go swimming by my dock and now it's a thing of the past. BTW are you located here in central Indiana.

How many bluegill in a 60 acre lake will make a difference and not just become a feeding frenzy for the 1.5lb bass??

A full view survey will include angling for any size/species, a shock survey, gill/fyke/cast netting, fish traps. Each survey has it's own pro's and com's along with adding a slice to the overall picture of what is in the lake and how it is skewed.

Essentially unmanageable waters always ebb and flow on what species is growing most. You may have a great LMB spawn one year, BG another, BCP another....weather and other factors determine that. What grows and has good forage will be the species to thrive and rule for a few years...then another gets top spot for a while.

Harmoniously managing a 60 acre HOA lake with solid, non-evolving goals would be about as easy as getting a young LMB to not eat a fathead minnow.

You can help create goals now as Lake Chair, and management actions you get taken now, may be in direct conflict with past or future management actions/goals.

How deep of water is an e-shock effective? Water chemistry a factor?

Great response! You are saying a 60 acre lake is basically out of my control ie nonmanageable. It's a lot of water. Let me pose another theory. Is there a chance the big largemouth are still there but are uncatchable due to a lack of weedgrowth??? I say this cause I fished the Stick Marsh in Florida this year and it went through a similar lack of weedgrowth, but once the weeds came back so did all the big fish. Meaning they never left but couldn't be caught. How long does a bass live and how long should it take a bass to get to be 5lbs, also can anyone do scale studies to see how old bass are and their relative weight? Fish scales I mean of course.

Bill I'm just real skeptical of a shock study. The prolific and large yellow bass are found between 15-18 feet of water during the summer months unless you did a spring shocking. They are a real problem IMO and place a big drain on your forage although they may serve a purpose in keeping the gizzard shad in check no scientific evidence just anecdotal.

Spice, I am not saying management CAN'T be done....it would just be exceptionally hard to get owners to agree on a plan. If you have 200 voices involved on the lake, you will have 200 separate visions of what it should be.

Large LMB should not be "easily caught"...nor should small or medium ones. 1-2 per hour is pretty good, from a nice sized management perspective....but certainly not from an impatient fisherman's perspective.

Changing the dynamics of a lake in terms of sizes and species balance can take years of dedicated work, on ALL involved. Rarely is anything done that will show quick results. Also, any reproducing species added is probably never coming out...and some non-reproducing fish, like grass carp, may live for decades

Spice, what is a 'Yellow Bass?'

There are limitations for depth in electroshocking, but most likely, the more deeper waters may be devoid of oxygen and thus not too populated.

Another option to consider would be the stocking of some tiger muskie to help with the culling of smaller LMB; of course, the muskie are not so selective and will eventually eat whatever they want.

A 60 acre pond is manageable. It's just a huge labor of love, and everyone has to be on the same page.

What you are hearing from all of us is that a multi-faceted plan is needed.

Spicelanebass I suggest you call Bob Lusk at the Pond Boss office. He has experience with lakes like the one you describe.

Shock surveys do have limits but are a good tool . An experienced operator will know how to interpret the data (catch records , shock survey , visual inspection , water analysis etc) to give you a complete picture. Water chemistry and temp have an effect on shock surveys but can be managed around.

GS can be a problem and there are threads here on the topic.

Very well put, Sunil....you earned an extra Peroni for that reply!

Yes; used to catch 8-10inch black crappie all day long in the spring almost every cast sometimes, now the crappies run 13"-16" and are caught at a few select spots. I used to go to a lighted dock in the fall and catch a crappie with a lighted bobber non-stop. So yes the forage is way, way down.

Yes that is who I want to talk to but I'm not sure he would come up here and help me, I envision a "Richmond Mill Pond" in central Indiana, that's my goal.

Pry open the wallets. You need to get an idea of just what you have, predator vs. forage. Remember, a LMB needs to eat 10 lbs of forage in order to gain 1 pound.

625 acre West Boggs was drained and rotenoned last year due to gizzard shad. Many of its feeder creeks were also hit to try and slow the inevitable reinfestation.

Bruce Condello as a fellow dentist you have any insight to my problem???

They're also called bar fish, and can be excellent forage for XXL LMB in reservoir sized water. In a pond, not so much.

They're a tad smaller than the white/sand bass, and frequent the same type of open water.