Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain Brook Trout and Smallmouth Bass

I am researching the possibility of having brook trout and smallmouth bass (along with a long chain of forage species) in a pond in upstate New York.

There is a plethora of strong running, year round, spring fed creeks on the property and it will not be hard to feed the spawning boxes that I have read about for brook trout. So, that is not going to be of concern.

What I am wondering is how will the brook trout fair as forage for smallmouth bass? I understand that they will not be a great forage base by themselves, but I thought that they would be good feed for the larger smallies and they would provide excellent table fish as well.

Also, what types of forage could also reproduce in these spawning areas that the brook trout will use? Are there other species usually only found in creeks that could possibly make the transition to pond life is such a spawning site were in place?

The pond will probably be around 6 to 8 acres. We're still in the very early planning stages, but given the lay of the land and the suitable area we have to put a pond, this seems to be the most likely size of the pond. Depths will go from shallow shallow to approximately 16 feet deep in the deepest parts. That is the plan anyway.

I know that there are a lot of questions here, but every time I google something it takes me here. So, I thought that I would join so that I could ask specific questions.

Thanks.

Ronald

I have heard of people using brookie for bait. Said they would choose them over the same sized shiner . Fall spawn fish so they are pretty little though winter.

If it fits in a smb mouth I bet they eat it.

It might be to my advantage that they will be small while the bass are less active. The trout will be at their strongest while the bass are at their weakest. That should give them at least a fighting chance of reproducing effectively.

I plan on having minnows, shiners, maybe lake chubs, crayfish, and possible pumpknseeds too, and if grass shrimp will survive in NY state I will have them too. So there will be other food for the smallies to eat. I just want to make sure that there will be bigger food availabe for bigger bass.

Plus, who doesn't want to eat trout? lol

The odds even in upstate New York of a 6-8 acre pond staying cold enough with enough dissolved oxygen to support brook trout is highly unlikely. Unless the pond had a MASSIVE inflow of cold spring water and it would have to be MASSIVE... Brook trout need water temps 68 degrees and below with dissolved oxygen levels above 4 ppm.

If the pond did have these conditions, SMB would likely under perform as they'd never see water temperature that they grow best in... In general, you either have a cold water fishery(trout) or a cool water fishery(SMB, WE, HSB) but not both.

The rare time you get both is when you have a "two story" fishery and you don't get that in ponds or even small lakes.

I'd first research construction of the pond and get that set first and then as that settles, research the fish community for it...

CJBS2003,

Can you recommend a suitable large forage item for smallmouth bass in this neck of the woods?

It doesn't have to be brook trout.

I was just thinking that they're the right shape and that they would provide a substantial large meal for a big smallie.

Thanks

Ronald

LCS and GSH are suitable large forage for SMB.

In my research I hadn't come across anything better either.

It's hard to accept that the warm water guys have all the options.

Maybe I will just have to suck it up and accept that a New York pond will never have the type of cool forage options that a Georgia pond will.

Therapist,

FWIW Have you considered a cool water species pond, SMB, YP and maybe WE along with the minnows and PS in your plan? The YP provide the forage for the bigger bass and WE.

Bill D.

Bill,

Thank for the input.

We don't want to add another predator besides the smallmouth bass. We're hoping that every drop of water in the pond can go toward creating big fat smallies, and the thought of something else eating smallies really irks me.

The yellow perch, to my understanding, won't be effectively controlled by smallies alone. Also, I know that they eat small fish when they get larger and they would probably eat a lot of the same things that the smallies do.

It just seemed a little counter productive to me.

I'm not trying to shoot anyone's ideas full of holes. I'm just going to have to accept that I won't be able to find a species that fits the niche I'm trying to fill in a more northern pond.

Thanks for the reply.

Ronald

SMB will effectively control YP. It's a numbers game. A client has a SMB stunted pond, that had a relatively large YP population. Now, cover in the pond is minimal, so the YP might not have had the proper substrate to pull off large successful spawns.

I'd look into YP for forage for the SMB too. Since the mouth gape of the SMB is relatively small, think of fish that are fusiform in shape as forage.

Will you be able to run any of the creeks into the pond?

esshup,
I will do more research on the matter. We haven't even built the pond yet, so this is all research. That being said, we have the option of doing almost anything we want cover wise. We're not talking the Taj Mahal of underwater structure, but brush piles, rock piles, etc could all be done really easily. My main concern is that the forage species will get out of control and ruin the pond. Then you end up with a perch pond with smallies in it.

fishm_n,
We can one of the creeks into the pond because the spring originates on the property. I don't know all the specifics, but my guess is that if you own the spring you can do whatever you want with it. I wouldn't want to run anything else directly into the pond because if it originates somewhere else, there is no telling what you're getting if you run it into the pond. I would hate to see someone's carp or goldfish or something else find their way in.

Thanks for the continued advice guys.

Ronald