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Joined: Aug 2012
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OP
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Thank you both for explaining!
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Ambassador Lunker
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Ambassador Lunker
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Exactly, F&C. I'm not a prepper, but if I were I think I would be all about risk mitigation. Having a pond full of fish is just like having that terrestrial garden full of vegetables.... they're handy, and a vital part of the equation, but they are vulnerable in that state.
Nature might intervene and decimate either or both. Predators, (both two and four legged) can impact the future harvest, and disease could wipe out any hopes for sustainability. If I were a prepper, I would absolutely consider a few ponds and garden plots to be essential. But I would hesitate to consider them to be "money in the bank" so to speak. It's just too risky in my eyes. In my opinion the ideal situation is one in which I have been harvesting that garden plot AND the pond for a few years, and have accumulated a store of food, and most importantly, have secured that food in such a manner as to afford it maximum protection.
Having food available in the garden, and swimming in my pond, would be incredibly important to my continued survival. But I would hate to have to rely solely upon that right out of the gate, when the SHTF.
Optimizing for maximum, storable, non-sustainable production in the beginning, then concentrating on a self sustaining pond would be my plan.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1) And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1) Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT? PB answer: It depends.
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Joined: Aug 2012
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OP
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 41 |
Before I push us too far off topic, I want to get a few more details about the fish types.
I think based on the consensus here, I'm going with LMB, BG and RES.
So when you guys say BG, do you mean any type of bluegill (e.g. CNBG) or is just regular bluegill recommended?
Same with LMB, are there different variations of that and if so, should I just take my pick or is there a specific variation that you guys would recommend based on what I'm looking to do and my specific location?
I'm on the verge of analysis paralysis!
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Joined: Jun 2008
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Ambassador Lunker
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Ambassador Lunker
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I'm on the verge of analysis paralysis!
Yep, welcome to PondBoss. In a pond intended solely for food production during a survival situation, I would want species and strains best suited for my geographic location. CNBG are a subspecies of northern strain bluegills. Either one would work in your location, but CNBG are often reported to grow faster than northern strain fish...a distinct advantage I might think. Of course, if the calamity involves a dramatic shift in the weather patterns, and Texas begins experiencing vastly colder than normal winters, well..... ![grin grin](/images/graemlins/default/grin.gif) I would probably go with a local, reputable supplier, who is familiar with the growing conditions in your area. Personally, I would stock CNBG and northern strain LMB.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1) And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1) Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT? PB answer: It depends.
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,867 Likes: 301
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,867 Likes: 301 |
Thank you both for explaining! And since you wish to maximize reproduction, definitely do not stock GSH or other egg eaters!
7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,315
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,315 |
I'm with Spark on his explanation of types to stock. Others from Texas would be good to hear their opinions too, as to which type of bluegill is best for food production.
I would definitely go with a reputable dealer of fish. Someone who's stock has proven to grow fast and add on weight quickly, no matter what species. I'm thinking Overtons, if it is close to you.
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Joined: Aug 2014
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 3,959 Likes: 188 |
Overtons is a good choice. Todd will point you in the right direction. Very good people
Pat
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Hall of Fame Lunker
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Hall of Fame Lunker
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What about cage raising fish along with the open pond? For me I would want to convert to protein as quickly and efficiently as possible. Both growing and harvesting. Cage raised BH along with the classic combination BG-LMB freely swimming the pond.
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Joined: Aug 2012
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OP
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 41 |
What about cage raising fish along with the open pond? For me I would want to convert to protein as quickly and efficiently as possible. Both growing and harvesting. Cage raised BH along with the classic combination BG-LMB freely swimming the pond. Honestly, I hadn't considered that. I'm still pretty new to the whole idea in general so I hadn't explored many options to be honest. How are those fish raised? What do they eat?
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Hall of Fame Lunker
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Hall of Fame Lunker
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There are some real wizards here with cage raising. Unfortunately it's not me. Just starting to dabble with it. My neighbor and I almost every time we hang out talk about all the ways we would produce food and prep for our families. Both for sustenance but also commerce if the SHTF. Our fruit trees, honey bees, fish ponds, ect. He is a master canner (if there is such a thing. ![grin grin](/images/graemlins/default/grin.gif) He even teaches classes on it) Last year I think he put up around 200 jars of smoked white suckers.
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Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
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What do you feed the caged fish when SHTF?
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Lunker
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Lunker
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I say relax and stock the pond for recreation. If you must prep, stock up on military rations.
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,315
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Joined: Sep 2011
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What do you feed the caged fish when SHTF? To me, this is the real issue with all planning for this idea... it goes along with all the stuff Spark mentions and why LMB, BG, RES is the better choice for ease, a self sustenance pond with manual hand work for management. If it is prepping for just a short term need, like losing a job for a few months that's easier, but long term is tough. Don't want this to get off pond topic, so with what has been said, take a few examples. To push a pond to raise the most food, it probably would be wise to have aeration for holding capacity, right? That means an electric source. Sure you can go solar, but what about the endless scenarios of things that could wrong with that. Next, feeding fish can push growths. Where does the feed come from? What about if nature throws a curve ball and you end up with a water shortage? Anyway.... It goes back to starting with the basics, and then learn, learn, learn. Expand your growing methods as you learn. Learn how to raise your own tilapia fry to throw into the pond every spring. Learn how to do solar aeration. Learn how to cage raise fish. Learn water quality. Learn vegetation control. Learn harvesting methods, like seins, traps, etc. All of this makes ANYONE more prepared, if needed. It makes all of us better stewards of our ponds. Just have to jump in, and start doing and learning. And Enjoy the ride, it never ends!!!!
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,088 Likes: 96
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,088 Likes: 96 |
Good post fish n chips.
I would add that in any scenario where survival and/or relative comfortable living compared to not being prepared and living poorly is concerned, the three main issues are diversity, diversity, diversity. Not having ones eggs all in one basket, so to speak. Have many multiple ways of providing for ones self and family. With a pond and fish in the pond being one small portion of a much larger and more diversified plan. If a person is depending 90% on a pond to provide sustenance, that is an entirely different scenario than if it is 5% of "the plan".
I would guess in Griff's case, maybe the pond portion of "the plan" is more of the 5-10% of the prepping plan rather than it being the major portion of sustenance in the event it is needed because more normal channels have been made inoperable.
Would that be a safe assumption Griff?
John
I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine
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Ambassador Lunker
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Ambassador Lunker
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I admit to being baffled by the entire prepper mindset. I've seen those shows on TV, and I have a friend who claims to embrace the prepper philosophy. But as far as I can tell in his case, it's no more than an excuse to collect and shoot firearms, stockpile a traincar load of ammunition, gather as many plastic, food-safe containers as possible, learn to throw a tomahawk(?), and refrain from haircuts and daily shaving. That's all I'm getting out of his efforts.
I'm sure there are those, away from the constraints of reality television, who are very good and quite capable of living the prepper lifestyle, whatever that may be. But I would sure like to get a peek into their operation.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1) And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1) Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT? PB answer: It depends.
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 3,959 Likes: 188
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 3,959 Likes: 188 |
Well put Sparkie I feel the same way
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,088 Likes: 96
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,088 Likes: 96 |
But as far as I can tell in his case, it's no more than an excuse to collect and shoot firearms, stockpile a traincar load of ammunition, gather as many plastic, food-safe containers as possible, learn to throw a tomahawk(?), and refrain from haircuts and daily shaving.
And you need more reason than that!!! ![laugh laugh](/images/graemlins/default/laugh.gif)
John
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If you're really trying to raise food for prepping you are much better off with an aquaponic system that will grow tilapia, crawdads, and plants.
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 41
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OP
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 41 |
Good post fish n chips.
I would add that in any scenario where survival and/or relative comfortable living compared to not being prepared and living poorly is concerned, the three main issues are diversity, diversity, diversity. Not having ones eggs all in one basket, so to speak. Have many multiple ways of providing for ones self and family. With a pond and fish in the pond being one small portion of a much larger and more diversified plan. If a person is depending 90% on a pond to provide sustenance, that is an entirely different scenario than if it is 5% of "the plan".
I would guess in Griff's case, maybe the pond portion of "the plan" is more of the 5-10% of the prepping plan rather than it being the major portion of sustenance in the event it is needed because more normal channels have been made inoperable.
Would that be a safe assumption Griff? Yes 5 - 10% is a fair number I think. I dug the pond more for the sheep to have a water source and it of course made sense to throw some fish in their since it's there. My main focus is gardening. I'm not really anything like the preppers you might see on TV. I hoard nothing. I am very interested in natural living and just being able to provide for myself and my family without too much help from others. That's always been my mentality which is why I've never had a boss. But my education is in economics so I know there will be a major change at some point and I hope it's not in my lifetime but if it is in my lifetime I don't want to see me or my family in a soup line.
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Joined: Oct 2013
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Math will not be denied and the lesson of exponential growth will have its day.
John
I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine
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OP
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Math will not be denied and the lesson of exponential growth will have its day. Can you expand on that a bit? Is it the size of my pond?
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Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
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Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
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I'm a prepper, in that I have a plan and the means to carry out that plan should SHTF. Exactly what will cause a SHTF event? Well, the scenarios are nearly endless... some are more likely than others and some are very unlikely.
Some events may only last a week, some a couple weeks to a month. Some could last a month or two. Others 6 months to a year... Worst case scenarios could be a year or more.
Should the power grid go down, and it can happen. (Terrorist attack, cyber attack, EMP both natural or man made) life as we know it will come to a halt... The average person has enough food in their house to last roughly 3-5 days. Restoring the power grid could easily take months... Without access to cash, banking, refrigeration, transportation(trucking), how are you going to get more food? If you planned ahead and do have food, how are you going to protect it from those who didn't plan ahead? Hungry people do desperate things... In my line of work I see how truly helpless the vast majority of Americans have become. Take away smart phones, the internet, electricity and running water for 2 weeks and you'll see America fall apart.
That's just a glimpse... I'm not some over obsessed fruit loop like they show on TV. However, I don't have my head in the sand. I have an "insurance policy" should something silly happen. If you think the government will be there to help in a massive SHTF event, look at how well they performed in the locally isolated Hurricane Katrina disaster...
I don't act like it's eminent but I do act like it's possible because it is. I don't skip hair cuts, I practice personal hygiene and have no clue how to throw a tomahawk. I do have firearms and plenty of ammunition but I'd have that whether I was a "prepper" or not... My family does have a plan and food and other provisions to hold us over for an extended period of time. We have the means to defend it as well. Am I crazy, I think not...
If you want to see a true "prepper" lifestyle, I'll introduce you to one of my father's best friends. He and nearly his whole family lives completely off the grid, produce about 80% of what they use but could easily go to 100% if needed. They utilize some modern conveniences but would be just fine without... I'm not into revolving my whole life around that line of thinking but to each their own. Just like if you don't want to take any special actions to prepare for a possible SHTF event, that's your choice and not for me to judge.
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Moderator Lunker
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At one time I could easily have done it. Now, I'm likely too old and am not kidding myself. We might make it a month.
Last edited by Dave Davidson1; 04/30/15 04:22 AM.
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.
Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,105
Member
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Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,105 |
I don't have a prepper mentality but I was young in the later stages of the depression when friends were putting cardboard in their shoes because of the holes in the soles. I had new soles sewed onto my old shoes. I had older friends that went through hell and ask me if I had ever been really truly hungry. So a collapsed economy, drought in the west bringing a horde of people back to the eastern part of the country, etc. could happen. So here are my thoughts. I have a nature pond with lots of plants and just a few GC to help to keep the plants somewhat controlled. I have only minnows & used to have bluegill in addition to that but lost them in a drought a few years ago. But for a survivalist the bluegill could be eaten. The minnows bring in lots of wildlife that could be shot for food. Just yesterday I cold have shot a Blue Heron, a Green Heron that are after the minnows, a couple of ducks and a couple of geese that come in for the plants. I could have caught bullfrogs, and a little later in the spring around the pond area I could harvest bird eggs. Also in the pond area I have lots of raspberries, some blackberries and mulberries. And the hated cattails are one of the best food providers in nature. Also in some fence rows are wild apples. All of this is wild and provided without much help from me. So if it ever came down to being a survivalist I am ready to go without trying. Also you can buy watercress from the grocer and stuff the stems in the shore of your pond and they will root and grow. Cattails for food. I have made salids from the lower stems of cattail and it is delicious. http://www.wildmanstevebrill.com/Plants.Folder/Cattails.html
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Joined: Sep 2014
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Joined: Sep 2014
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I am one of those guys that is simi prepared and that might not be enough, but its better than most, I think. The only thing that would change my plans would be where all or most of the animals and fish would die out before me and mine. I am an outdoorsman and have been that way for most of my life and I think that is way ahead of most here in the US. I also hoarded silver and gold coins, but I think, only the silver might be used in a barter situation, gold, not so much. And I am prepared to share or protect as necessary.
Tracy
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Tracy
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