|
Forums36
Topics42,113
Posts571,679
Members19,115
| |
Most Online23,413
5 hours ago
|
|
|
0 members (),
8,793
guests, and
272
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 196
|
|
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 196 |
Hi All, Hope I do not bore too much with this question generated by some additional reading I have been doing on the site plus a study or two.
I thought it was about this simple,in general, with it depend in the back of ones mind: One stocks for desired species, in the right(approx.) ratio, right times, feed and possible aeration, assess, and select slots and pound per yr. to pull out. After 3 to 5 yrs. restock for genetics and or to restock CC(no CC bedding areas) etc. as needed.
Now I have read or interpreted what I have read, that adding fish whether it be CNBG, LMB, in my case could or as I read will cause an issue with hierarchy, growth reduction due to established territory of existing fish an disruption by new addition(s),etc. to my Overton Select CNBG that I hope will become some of the 1st. class fish I have seen on PB.
If that is an absolute truth, then the indication is this: Stock, feed, grow, and pull out within management plan and then when disruption(s) happen I.E. out of balance, older fish 4 to 6yrs. or so, or some type of die off that did not kill all the fish etc., it would be better just to drain down take out the exiting fish, retnone and start over completely? Is that something I should consider, if I want to have trophy CNBG?
Since I do not get on that much, I will be redundant maybe in saying my pond is a one acre+ 17ft deep/6.5 acre ft., well fed, with some runoff from wooded areas, AQ 500 feed and aeration. I do have some structure and 10%+ quality beds on west side of pond. Stocked Spring and fall 2012 and added additional CNBG spring 2014.
Am I way off base here or is it just an overstatement on supplemental stocking for balance and no real compromise will be seen in a small pond like mine?
Thanks for any views, insights, opinions, because I am very dangerous when I try to think things out too much! I have proven it to myself more than once!!
Life is more fun with a pole in your hand.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,981 Likes: 18
Ambassador Lunker
|
|
Ambassador Lunker
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,981 Likes: 18 |
I think a great deal depends upon what size fish you are adding...in the LMB thread currently on the board, those fish were 3 lbs +. If you're goal is trophy CNBG, then you will want smaller bass in place to control recruitment.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 196
|
|
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 196 |
Hi sprkplug, I may not be relating my real question. The real question is, as I read, the established groups of fish say the CNBG in my pond now, could end up not growing to their full potential,by addition of new CNBG no matter what the size due to the disruption of hierarchy,numbers,established territory etc.
Also I read that disruption could come by even the culling via slot limits, some or even a few established larger fish say 9+ inch CNBG added(new) or removed(established). In short it seems that there are some that believe or have studied the effects of a change in the existing pond dynamics can cause a disruption in growth of said species due to disruption in the established fish groups in a pond. I would have thought that some disruption due to many things natural or man made for that matter, would most of the time, have the fish and pond in some flux most of the time anyway. That flux would include fish being lost and added through natural cycles(spawns) and adding fish(CNBG), catching fish(CNBG) etc.by man, done within reason/management plan would have little if any effect on the growth rate of the established body of fish(CNBG).
So as long as creel studies and records indicate balance, all is well.If fish additions or slot changes are indicated that it could be done within reason and no real documentable growth changes would be seen over the years.
Again the above is what I thought the last couple of years but now I seem to be questioning my thoughts due to some of what I have read indicates otherwise,or maybe I have just deciphered incorrectly what I have been reading.
Life is more fun with a pole in your hand.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,981 Likes: 18
Ambassador Lunker
|
|
Ambassador Lunker
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,981 Likes: 18 |
In the quest to grow trophy fish, (not just big fish), many times all options are left on the table. Every detail may be scrutinized and tweaked in an effort to produce maximum results. In my opinion, such operations may have an unusual take on the definition of "balance". My ponds are deliberately out of balance, in the traditional sense anyway, in favor of growing large HBG and BG.
I also believe that one can choose to take things as far to the extreme as possible, in order to achieve certain goals. Do I think the addition and subtraction of CNBG, either through natural or manmade efforts, might impact the existing population? Sure, but where do you draw the line? At what point does it cease to become a pond, and instead morph into a lab/science project?
To me, a pond is a give and take operation...if I attempt to throttle it, in an effort to control every single aspect in order to reach my goal of max growth of CNBG, then I need to be prepared for the consequences. I don't see anything wrong with doing what we can to try and stack the odds in our favor, but I believe that you have to give it room to be a pond.
I have a pond devoted to HBG, and I have added additional HBG into this BOW for years. I haven't noticed any ill effects due to the social hierarchy being disrupted. I place a much greater emphasis on maintaining adequate predator/prey ratios, staying on top of aquatic vegetation, maintaining good water quality, and supplemental feeding.
The basics.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,318 Likes: 8
Ambassador Lunker
|
|
Ambassador Lunker
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,318 Likes: 8 |
Correct me if I am wrong here but the LMB in your pond alone are going to impact the existing population.
I have a 1 acre pond and I have had CNBG and LMB and RES in since 2010. I have taken some out some have died and I have several 2 pound LMB that eat a LOT!! And I still have a good original stock of my CNBG. I even caught one this last summer that was 11 inches long. Keep in mind not every CNBG or any fish for that matter will be "Trophy Size" It just dont work that way.
RC
Last edited by RC51; 09/04/14 09:21 AM.
The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,318 Likes: 8
Ambassador Lunker
|
|
Ambassador Lunker
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,318 Likes: 8 |
Also keep in mind CNBG live about 6 to 7 years I think? I believe that's what someone here told me. So if you haven't got them to trophy size by the 5th year.... More than likey it's not gonna happen.... Course that's just M.O.
RC
The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,794
Lunker
|
|
Lunker
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,794 |
Hi All, Hope I do not bore too much with this question generated by some additional reading I have been doing on the site plus a study or two.
I thought it was about this simple,in general, with it depend in the back of ones mind: One stocks for desired species, in the right(approx.) ratio, right times, feed and possible aeration, assess, and select slots and pound per yr. to pull out. After 3 to 5 yrs. restock for genetics and or to restock CC(no CC bedding areas) etc. as needed.
Now I have read or interpreted what I have read, that adding fish whether it be CNBG, LMB, in my case could or as I read will cause an issue with hierarchy, growth reduction due to established territory of existing fish an disruption by new addition(s),etc. to my Overton Select CNBG that I hope will become some of the 1st. class fish I have seen on PB.
If that is an absolute truth, then the indication is this: Stock, feed, grow, and pull out within management plan and then when disruption(s) happen I.E. out of balance, older fish 4 to 6yrs. or so, or some type of die off that did not kill all the fish etc., it would be better just to drain down take out the exiting fish, retnone and start over completely? Is that something I should consider, if I want to have trophy CNBG?
Since I do not get on that much, I will be redundant maybe in saying my pond is a one acre+ 17ft deep/6.5 acre ft., well fed, with some runoff from wooded areas, AQ 500 feed and aeration. I do have some structure and 10%+ quality beds on west side of pond. Stocked Spring and fall 2012 and added additional CNBG spring 2014.
Am I way off base here or is it just an overstatement on supplemental stocking for balance and no real compromise will be seen in a small pond like mine?
Thanks for any views, insights, opinions, because I am very dangerous when I try to think things out too much! I have proven it to myself more than once!! mpc, over the years I have grown some really nice pure CNBG. I will be happy to share my experience but there are too may variables to make hard and fast rules. I had some really good �trophy� size fish going into the bad 2011 drought year when our 2 acre pond shrunk to 1 acre and had a bad fish kill, with two bottom diffusers running 24/7. Thought I lost all my big fish but pleasantly surprised when I found some really good CNBG brood stock survivors. When we finally got some rain I stocked 100 hand size Overton�s best CNBG. I�m not fishing right now until water cools down but I am looking forward to some 11 inchers since catching many 9-10 inch CNBG the past spring. First of all , I cull all BG between 5 and 8 inches and all females over 5 inch unless really big prime females for brood stock. Secondly every male is removed that does not meet easily recognized Overton�s characteristics of his best brood stock. Pictures below shows wide body, few vertical stripes, cream colored fin tips and broad prominent copper bar on nose and coloration obvious to others not color blind..  FireIsHot OTS CNBG  Here's one of mine  If you have a well to maintain constant water level you can avoid majorf problems, but if not a 1 hp Kasco surface aerator will be an asset to handle low water conditions if drought continues. Good luck, George Glazener
N.E. Texas 2 acre and 1/4 acre ponds
Original george #173 (22 June 2002)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 196
|
|
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 196 |
Hi Guys, Thanks for the posts and they confirm what I was thinking but just wanted to bounce it off my Co-PB'ers.When I read new stuff I try to keep and open mind about anything I read. I am not so much a technical guy and want to enjoy my fish and fishing as well as pond management in the process, but have said before and still want to do the least amount of mistakes I can. I was struggling with when and how to take or even add fish outside the normal seasonal and temp. issues we have in East TX.
I have and will continue to manage as I have been doing because I follow just about if not all of the things everyone above stated. Since I have a well and even take time to fill in weeks instead of days, slow but sure, I have through reading your post been able to come back to reality. Thanks. I have read that trophies(CNBG) are few in a pond most of the time and the 5 to 6 year time-frame is a window in general with CNBG age wise, I feed,cull and keep water chemistry as best as I can to reach that goal. I would hope that I end up with as much as 10% trophy CNBG and would feel lucky if that happened, with another 20 to 30% in the 8" to 11" range, would be a success for me.
I think most people read stuff and wonder. I brought it here to see what other PB'ers think and I appreciate the time you have taken to post, I feel better now. In the next two years I will know if I have been a good PB'er or maybe even a real good PB'er. Thanks again for your help getting there.
Life is more fun with a pole in your hand.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,318 Likes: 8
Ambassador Lunker
|
|
Ambassador Lunker
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,318 Likes: 8 |
MPC you will have 8 to 10 inch CNBG for sure bud, Just remember you have to have the right amount of Predator fish in your pond to help manage the smaller BG.
I have 2 to 3 pound bass and have 8 to 11 inch CNBG also. To me that's the perfect world.
You just have to remember that those bass are gonna be harder to catch then you think... but the cool thing is catching 10 inch BG is a blast too!
At first I had these great expectations of catching bass whenever I wanted to because I had my own pond!! Ha,ha that just isn't the case all the time, but you need them in there to help with the BG POP.
RC
The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
|
|
|
Moderated by Bill Cody, Bruce Condello, catmandoo, Chris Steelman, Dave Davidson1, esshup, ewest, FireIsHot, Omaha, Sunil, teehjaeh57 |
|
