Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Property Projects & Construction Need to raise some chickens and need help.

They are fine together.

RAH, John and Ken, I think I have everything here (maybe duplicates) to do the chickens except the outside pen. When I bought this 10 acres, the previous owners had chickens, horses and a beef cow or 2. They left a LOT of stuff when they moved, even 2 of the tack boxes full of horse stuff. The 6' x 20' x 8' tall coop is built on the outside of the 100 year old barn, there is a door to access the coop from inside the barn only. It has a couple of screen covered windows that have plywood shutters to close up during the winter, and a door so they can walk out and down a ramp to the pen that is also lockable from the outside. Half of one wall inside is covered with nesting boxes.

The outside pen was made of chickenwire, but it was old and failing in spots due to rust, and the posts were starting to rot, so I yanked out the pen and trashed it all. There are multiple galvanized feeders in the barn, both for hens and for chicks, waterers, wire egg baskets, at least 2 heat lamps, and I don't know what all else is there for sure. I have one plug-in electric fence controller that is rated for 1/2 mile, and they left a large solar fence controller that uses a car battery. I removed the battery 10+ years ago but that controller should still be good. I think that's a bit of an overkill for the pen tho. They used that controller for all teh fences that they had here. I have 2 of those 30 gallon? buckets that have rope handles full of electric fence isolators for both metal "T" posts and wooden posts, spring gate handles, etc.

There are both minks and weasels in the area, along with all the other usual predators. Plus a Springer Spaniel that will learn that chickens are NOT like the pheasants, ducks and geese that she is supposed to retrieve.

I'll swing by the local TSC to check on poultry netting for the bottom. I had planned on putting an electric fence wire on the outside of the pen about 2" off of the ground, and another row 6" higher, then 10" or so higher to deter any 4 legged critters from trying to get thru the fencing on the cage. RAH,I haven't looked, how tall is that poultry fencing? I'd like the pen to be min. 6' tall on the sides.

What size (mesh size if I have a choice) netting for the top? I was thinking of using the synthetic "game bird" stuff vs. metal chicken wire.

Good choice with the electric fence. My sister did that with hers to keep out the critters and one of her dog's. Luna bumped into it once and never got within 5' of it again. They just got the 2"x4" opening roll fencing to go over the top of the yard. Hawks were always buzzing above the yard. Never heard of any getting close tho.

I like the electric fence idea also. Bonus points if you can adapt it into a small scale electroshock device for your pond.

I meant by just being able to build a rig and running electric to it this spring.

Called my brother and he said I ain't getting much past the power line -via- my driveway. Have to wait till things melt a bit more.

Scott, I was going to reply in a PM but thought others might get an understanding of how some insurers differentiate between personal and business (related) policies. And as a disclaimer, each state differs on how each company is filed with their state dept. of insurance, so I can only speak of NE and my experience with State Farm (27 years in the business for me and my dad's been an agent with SF for over 52 years). BTW, I have my own issues with SF (rates, practices, etc.) as I'm sure we all do with each company we work for and/or represent, so please feel free to moderate this if you feel it in any way comes across as promotional!

On any detached structure, if it is in any way used for business (business or commercial exposure) it is excluded from coverage under a personal homeowners policy (with limited exceptions). Even if an attached garage has an ineligible business exposure, the home would not be insurable either. An unfortunate situation I've been in too many times! But if the business or commercial exposure (including buildings) is eligible for coverage with SF, the detached structure, it's contents, as well as commercial liability would be covered under that respective policy (or policies), likely including equipment rental up to $50k.

If the risk is one that SF cannot offer coverage on or insure (and there are many that SF cannot write for various reasons such as risk, claims experience, the way they're filed, etc.), and aquaculture or fish-farm may be one of those, then none of the detached structures or business property would be eligible for coverage.

I'm going out on a limb a little here, but for an agent or agent's office representative to say or insinuate "they wouldn't add a rider", "we're not in the business to insure equipment" and "we are in the home and auto business, not insuring farm buildings", would be a false and/or inaccurate statement to make and I apologize it was related to you in that way, regardless of what company that agency represents. There should have been a much better way to relate what they could or could not write/insure with an explanation as to why. Instead, the way it was related to you does nothing (I'm guessing) but give you a bad taste about an individual company, it's representative(s) and possibly the industry as a whole which is already one that few people understand, and love to hate (insurance, which many regard as a necessary evil).

What I'd like to relay here is for all of us to be sure we've fully explained our individual situations to our insurance agent, not only so they understand what risks and exposures we each have, but to eliminate any surprises ("sorry, that's not covered") down the road. And ask for explanations and clarifications and make them accountable for accurate answers! If they're so sure of their answer, will they put in on paper? I have over 70 insurance products that I will never claim to be an expert on or know the ins and outs of each. But feel an incredible level of responsibility to my poliyholder's to know about their exposures and advise accordingly. They should be counting on me for that!

I apologize for the length of this and offer every disclaimer for the CYA issue, but have we all explained to our agent (as it appears Scott has) exactly what we have, own and do to be sure we have the appropriate coverages? And if you EVER get the sense that your agent is not looking out for YOUR best interests, find a new agent!

And back to the chickens and the eggs because I know insurance is such an exciting subject , would we be liable if we sold someone a bad egg? (that can be taken metaphorically as well )

Thanks LL. A friend of mine has had SF for 30 years, and he had to go round and round a bit with his agent, but his agent did get a rider for rental equipment that he used on his place.

I just felt that after being with the same agent for 10+ years that he should have done things a bit differently like you said. My only recourse was to think that if he didn't want my business (his response felt like a brush-off rather than an explination) that I should take my business elsewhere, which I did. The IFB agent seemed like she wanted the business and took the time to explain many more things than the SF agent did.

I had inquired with the SF agent for personal equip rental, not business related. The outbuildings also have no ties to the business either.

Back to the chickens. I don't plan on selling any of the eggs/birds, personal/family consumption only. I'm out in the country, and the terms "organic" and "Non-GMO" don't mean squat to the people that buy food here. While this area is not THAT far from a big city (90 from Chicago, 30 from South Bend) it's far enough out in the country that many people still really watch their pennies. It's rural enough that you can put a produce stand at the roadside, have a money box out there for people to pay for what they need, and not have the box nor it's contents disappear.

I looked for the 6-foot poultry fence on the web, and cannot find it. I guess it is just not popular anymore. You could use 2x2" wire and add a 1' section of chicken wire to the bottom to keep the little guys in. The electric wire will probably do more than anything else anyway. I think that you can still get the fencing that I suggested for game animals, but it is pretty pricey.

https://afence.com/store/330-X78-GAMEFENCE.html

Awd
Crazy how things can be that different in such a short distance. I'm not going to lie. I'm not a GMO fan and if I was feeding the eggs to my family that would definitely be another reason go Non-GMO. That's just me though. I'm not judging. As for an easy run if you can find a old trampoline frame for free or next to nothing they work great for an easy run. Google trampoline chicken tractor. Sorry if I'm a little bias on GMO issue but I'm allergic to GMO corn. (Mainly High Fructose Corn Syrup)which I find to be in everything it seems like now. I follow it pretty close now. I will break out in full body rash if I consume. Never had a problem eating animals that consumed it though.

Talked to Mon & Dad and my sister/brother-in-law. Each think 24 meat birds per year/per household should be enough. So, I think the max would be 60 birds, and that's what the coop will hold so I don't see having more than that amount of birds at any one time.

Thinking of going with Cornish X for the meat birds, and going with 30 to start once it gets to ordering time. That way if I screw up the first batch there won't be a lot of time invested in them. Plus some Araucanas/Ameraucanas for eggs (unless there's a different breed that I should consider). I think I read that the Araucanas/Ameraucanas do better in cold than other species.

Re: eggs. I don't need a bunch. 2-3 per day is more than enough for all of us. Color of the eggs is of no importance. The families like eggs on the large size.

As for butchering, that's the easy part. There's a group of Amish ladies not too far from here that do that for $1/bird. Bring them in live, pick them up in individual plastic bags.

Those Cornish crosses grow fast but they can't take the heat. I grew out 26 of them a few years ago and when the weather gets over 80 they really start to struggle. I ended up having to butcher a couple weeks early. One just keeled over from heat. It was very hot that summer though. Wish I had started them sooner in year before it got to hot.

Maybe she just thought you were cute

On the GMO thing, I would definitely see what the major scientific organizations have to say. Simply Google - scientific organizations genetically modified statements - to read these. If you do not trust the World Health Organization, American Medical Association, or National Academy of Sciences, then don't bother.

I would look for a company that writes farm policies, not all of them do. Ask neighbors that are farming for the name of their insurance company. I went through the same issues that you are having.

If you plan on doing agriculture long term you will want poultry fencing (1x2" square) or you will be replacing chicken wire every few years as it rusts, gets weak and breaks easily. I've never seen the poultry fencing in 6' widths, I built my frame with 4x4 posts and hung 2 rows of wire horizontally, any excess can be cut or bury it. I use zip ties to connect the two rows together. Zip ties have to be periodically replaced because the UV breaks them down. I also covered my pen with this wire and used a fence stretcher to get it tight but my span wasn't that great. Chickens can and do make deep holes for dust baths and if you don't bury some fence they will compromise their own security.

I've done the chicken thing for a lot of years and it's a lot of work. Are you sure you want to do chickens? It's a year round commitment. I think something like raising turkeys would be easier, you would have to fence in a larger pen but you wouldn't have to worry about caring for them over winter. You probably have a few places around you that will process them for you, you just raise and grow them, take orders and have them processed for Thanksgiving . With chickens if you have layers, even if it's a few, you should collect eggs 2 x's/day and if you want eggs in the winter you have to provide them with artificial light (added cost that's hard to recoup tax wise). Going out getting eggs or changing water in the winter gets old.

Make sure your pen door is wide enough to fit a wheelbarrow through and save all of your receipts for your project including equipment and tools too as they are tax deductible. Register your farm with the farm bureau.

Having raised and kept gamebirds for over 10 yrs. I have encountered every varmit known to Nebraska trying to get in these pens. Mink are some of the worst.
I agree, keeping the varmits out is a challenge.
The best way is to trench down and bury tin (such as roofing material type) 8-10 inches below the ground, around the perimeter. The trenching must be done before your posts are set so that your tin will be tight against your posts.
You can use 2x4's ran horizontally at the top of the tin-fastened to your posts and your tin can be screwed directly to the 2x4's.
Your netting can also be fastened to the 2x4's.
The tin, if 3 foot widths, will be out of the ground roughly 2 feet. Therefore if you want 6 foot sidewalls you can get by with 4 ft wide material.
By putting the tin around the bottom I think it helps that the varmits cannot see in. Used corrigated roof tin works well and the nail holes do not hurt anything. It is very inexpensive if you can find it. Farm sales or demolition crews are your best bet. Also, electric fence both at the ground and on top of the 2x4s where your netting starts has eliminated 99% of our varmit problems
Good luck with your venture.

we will be building a large dog pen, and our next try with poultry will be in a pen completely surrounded by the dog pen.

They live very peacefully together in the coop and pen. I usually let them free run after about noon time, as all the eggs will be laid by then. The three guineas go off one direction and the chickens go a different direction. Our big cat hangs around with the guineas

I like the sound of this....Please keep us informed if you go this route.

I wish I could leave a box and eggs out like that. If I did the eggs and box would be gone in less than 10 minutes. Dang meth has taken over around here. It's awful.

Meth is everywhere these days. Rural Texas has a real crime wave going. Actually, it's been going for quite awhile.

There is a cure for that...

Dave, we subscribe to the local rural paper which has a crime report every week. Filtered in between all the cow out and barking dog reports is an inordinate amount of traffic stops. The vast majority have drug related charges because of those stops. Outstanding warrants, drug paraphernalia, drugs on board, etc. Most are related to Meth.

I like the dog panel deal. We'll probably wait until next year to get started, but the new garden took precedence this year. It's up and growing with a mix of heritage and hybrid plants. Separated of course.

esshup, I think you two are going to be really busy with 50 birds. Good luck to you two. We're thinking about trying it but not with fifty(WOW)!

John Wann, The old trampoline frame (run) is a really great idea. Thanks!!!