Pond Boss Forums AQUATIC VEGETATION Controlling unwanted plants Control of giant lyngbya?

Now I'm pretty sure I've got this narrowed down to giant lyngbya, the filamentous bluegreen that forms mats on the bottom and "peels" off and floats to the top. The problem has been in controlling it. I good dose of chelated didn't work, chelated and diquat haven't made a dent, and now maximum (hot but fish safe) dose of granular hydrothol hasn't touched it. Has anyone had any luck knocking this stuff down? We're seeing 50-60% coverage 3 days after raking it all out!

Just a thought, but with water that clear, and no significant rooted vegetation, those nutrients have to go somewhere.

Once they been established on the bottom, wouldn't any chemical only be able to fry the surface of that blue-green mat? And even if it killed some of it, all those nutrients would be right on the bottom to be reutilized again, right?

It seems like you could allow some rooted vegetation to absorb some of the nutrients, like a Potemogeton species, or lightly apply a dye, which would keep the light from hitting the bottom.

Every year when my algae bloom dies off I get that bottom mat formation.

This water is amazingly clear... it is actually heavily dyed to stop the sun, no such luck. this is where we are again looking at swimming pool goals. So maybe its not lyngbya? Could it just be a heavy detrital mat on the bottom that's supporting photosynthetic activity enough to make it float? Is it evidence of a good treatment? I guess I should take a look at it to see if its dead.

When I lift a mat out and sit it in the sun it turns to the finest dust you've ever seen. It also comes with a particular smell that I can't quite describe.

So when you see this, it's time to get out the rake? I'm thinking that if I rake it then apply a light algaecide after, we should be in good shape

BTW nice cover shot on the Magazine!

Bill Cody had an incredible presentation on the value of raking in ponds to break down bottom sludge and other organics at the conference. I absolutley think raking is a good idea. I've been implementing it ever since I saw Bill's talk and it works. It's also a little hard on the back. I think I need a better rake.

Thanks for the comment on the cover. I think that Bass Pro Shops will be in for a pleasant surprise when it comes to response from their customers about the magazine. Lusk's content is amazing.

Definitly- I saw Bill's presentation at the conference, I think it definitly showed the need for agitation/aeration to speed the effectiveness of bacteria (either naturally occuring or applied).

The magazine is definitly filling a much needed niche in our community. It's the first one that contains truly relevant and reliable info for what we do! The forum is a dream come true too.

Could it be pithophora?

Justin, hope all is well. I think you got teh id correct. Bruce is right nutrients gotta go somewhere. But they might go into phytoplankton production if not being dyed. I would discard that if you want fish since not working anyway. It is tougher to kill than many algae mats. We have good luck with cooper sulfate liquid mixed with Reward. I posted somehwere about pithophora contorl, pretty similiar deal. Good luck.

Greg- What ratio do you use CuSO4 and reward? I have been looking for someone that uses it-- do you use it often? What else do you use it for?

I don't think its pithophora, it does not have the consitency and strings that I think pith. has. It more or less breaks up in your hand

sorry to cnfuse you no it is not pith but lynbga. We use 4 ozs ktea and 2 ozs reward (you might have to double) and mist over it, kills most anything it touches. This may not work in your water chemistry, but the 2:1 should. Or look at it atoher way it might take one gallon copper and 1/2 gallon Reward per weeded arcre and do the math. Test it out on a spot and see for your self, copper alone will take it from nasty brown to black but not killit.

See this thread.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthread...=true#Post35153

The southern ponds link does not work as mag is out of existence. I will find it tonight and repost.

has anyone tried the GreenClean and Copper? I have mixed feelings about GreenClean but it sounds like the two together may have the kick needed

JMAC,

I don't kow much about your water chemistry, but I had the same species kick my butt last year. Copper sulfate wouldn't do the trick alone. I then killed it using Clearigate. I guess it was all of the surfactants/penetrants in the clearigate that made the difference because the other chelated compounds didn't work either. It did come back about 6 weeks later, but I had no clearigate left. I then put copper sulfate into solution, mixed in some hydrothol 191 liquid and a good shot of surfactant. I then pounded my chest and said "Who's Your Daddy?". It worked.

I actually dropped the client for this year. It was just a plant growing machine....pithphora, hydrodyctin, etc. It was job security but I get sick of dealing with shallow, over-fertlitized retention ponds with home's associations that take 8 weeks to pay.

My advice is to keep good records and keep trying new things. As you know, what works in one pond may not in another. Going through the step-wise progression of different chemical cocktails is definitely a frustrating process.

I love Spirogyra, though. I think all I have to do is just hold the jug of Cutrine up in the air and the stuff starts to die.

Lastly, if the going gets really tough with the Lyngbya and you feel as though you've exhausted your resources (and still want to deal with it) send it off to a lab and have them perform an algal challenge. This is where the species and water chemistry are taken into consideration and subjected to mulitple tests using different chemicals/combinations at different concentrations to see what will work. Call Applied Biochemist about the test.

I feel your pain. Good luck.

Wow, so I'm not the only one turning down contracts to cure headaches! Is there any way to convince developers that ponds can be designed to prohibit plant growth, not encourage it? I think we should start a coalition!

Thanks for the info, I'll look into the clearigate, as well as the surfactants!

JMAC,

The Clearigate is already loaded with surfactants so you won't have to add any. It might be worth an attempt. Keep us posted.

It would be nice to get developers to join forces with us types prior to the developing. There usually aren't any problems with weeds until after the developers are gone, so then it's out of sight out of mind for them.

It sucks turning down contracts, but I think we are better off with ridding ourselves with some of these messes. It's made my business more profitable. It took me awhile to figure that out. Some of these ponds just can't be fixed without a trackhoe!!

Right on the trackhoe!

I just talked to Applied Biochemists, they said Clearigate should do it, but if it doesnt to try Harpoon too. I guess its back to the field from here.

That's good to know about Harpoon. I have never tried it. I don't even think my chemical distributor carries it. I'll have to add that to my on-going list of things to research this winter. Definitely keep us posted.

Shawn and JMAC, you both get an A+ in advanced business management. A significant portion of my CPA business is working with contractors and consulting with business owners. Usually one of the difficult concepts to convince a business owner of is that in addition to knowing what type of work you should bid on and perform you must also know what type of work to avoid. Some types of jobs are just not going to be profitable. Many times this is either due to unrealistic client expectations or that the job itself has built in obstacles that will be expensive to overcome and the client doesn't acknowledge that (and accordingly doesn't want to pay for it). Many times, usually for reasons of cash flow requirements, a business owner will take on such a contract and regret it in the long run. What starts out to be a cash flow infusion results in a contract loss in the long run. Knowing when to turn down a prospective job is a very important component of business management that is sounds like you two have already learned. I congratulate you, it does my bean counting heart good to see this discussion - that's it, end of lecture - I'll go back to my corner now.


Oh except one more thing, I was really hoping that you had pithophora. That would have allowed me to say that it appears that you had a plethora of pithophora - now that joke doesn't work so good. Ok, NOW I'll go back to my corner.

UPDATE

So I wanted to try a theory before I went for the clearigate or harpoon... I put in a max rate dose of CuSO4 with a HEALTHY shot of surfactant on a 4 acre pond that was moderately infested. Just got back from there (2 weeks post treat) and its looking very good. Hopefully its not just the cool nights and its my cocktail thats doing it.

Note in the first set of pictures, that the algae is growing in generally characteristic conditions: 1. clear water, 2. water with blue dye (usually), 3. black sediments, 4. no bottom activity, 5. bare bottom, no other plants growing on the bottom because all the other natural plant competition has been eliminated usually with chemicals. Natural competition usually keeps Lyngbya from becoming abundant. This is a common 'habitat' for this particular type of Lyngbya. There are numerous species of Lyngbya, Leptolyngbya, Oscillatoria and Phormidium. Lyngbya and its close genera relatives tend to be resistant thus they grow where all other less nuisance species were eliminated or cannot grow.