Pond Boss Forums FISH & FISHING Sunfish-Including Largemouth and Smallmouth Bass Smallmouth bass in texas

Again I am turning to the pond boss community to answer questions about pond fish but in the context of aquaponics.

As some know from my other threads, i currently grow largemouth bass, HSB, bluegill, redear and channel catfish in my north texas outdoor aquaponics system. I continue to work with native fish in this environment because of the the hassle and temperature vulnerabilities of other commonly used aquaponics fish (re: tilapia)

LMB have thrived in my system. They grow as fast as my average channel catfish and have handled the 110 degree summers and so far the winter temperatures, with a week long fish tank freezing very well. The one huge undesirable drawback has been the aggressiveness and cannibalism which seems to be more than natural because of the small enclosed spaces and no cover. I only have a a few fish tanks for all of my species and constantly grading all of my fish just isnt practical for me.

So it seems to me that maybe a better solution would be small mouth bass? Smaller mouth, reduced cannibalism? Could I expect them to thrive and be as hardy as their large gaped cousins?

I also noticed that none of the pond stocking places in the area seem to carry SMB. Is this because SMB do not do well in texas? do not do well in ponds? Both? neither?

If i wanted to work with SMB does anyone have a recommendation on a source? I am willing to drive to an adjacent state or even pay for shipping.




Thanks,
brian

My personal experience with smb in tanks is they are just as cannabilistic as largemouth. I graded them into two size groups and still had significant cannabilism.

I think the smallies will take the heat better than HSB who also have relatively small mouths. The mouth on a smallie is not all that much smaller than that of LMB. I would say the mouth gape of SMB is in between that of LMB and HSB. I think the SMB may not withstand water temperatures above 95F-97F. Be aware that when the water temps get above 86F for SMB adequate DO becomes very important for their survival. Minimal DO for the SMB in warm water should probably be 5ppm. IF you can maintain those conditions 24/7 the smallies should survive. Numerous pondmeisters in your south Central region have gotten their SMB from a place in Kansas, maybe Nebraska, although right now I cannot remember their name. Someone else should be able to provide the fish farm name. Let us know if you try the smallies and the temperatures and DO concentrations that they survive in for you. That info will be very helpful to all those interested in SMB.

Only a few things to add to experts Cecil and Bill from my experience raising SMB the past five years:

SMB are cannibalistic in my experience, especially fish up to 1" are particularly vulnerable

I believe given the parameters Cody cites, SMB can work in TX. I believe Chris Steelman in TX has a SMB fishery, but haven't heard a recent report. SMB worked in a hot Arizona desert with water temps in the upper 90s - but water quality was managed closely.

Hartleys in KS provide SMB - probably best suited to your environment as Southern KS gets pretty hot too.

Hope some of this helps...we'd love to experience this project with you. Several SMB fanatics on the forum with plenty of experience so you're in good hands for any questions you have.

Actually, all fish are cannibalistic. The eat everything that fits in their mouth.

I've not heard of anybody in Texas stocking SMB. Maybe in the NW corner of the State.

Bill states "the smallies will take the heat better than HSB.." If that is so, how is it that several pond owners in the deep south have HSB but not SMB? Is it because HSB do not require the same level of DO in warm water that SMB do?

could be they just have not discovered the fact they might actually be an option and or have access to them...( gallop ) in Gainsville FL is wantign to try them in his new pond but sourcing them is proving difficult.

I think it has to do with SMB not being able to compete with LMB.

I only have smallmouth as a predator in my Texas pond but it is not an ideal place for them(muddy water). The ones that I have caught and seined up have been in decent shape.

Hartley fish farm in Kingman Ks is a good SMB source. That is the farm Cody was trying to think of...

i kept 24 HSB in my ibcs through the summer without a problem.. in 6 months they grew from 1oz-4inch fish into about 12 inches.. But, i lost them all in a freeze in mid december when i lost power for 2 days. The LMB in the same tank lived though, which makes me try an dbrainstorm how to make them (or smallmouth) more viable in my system.

I will try HSB again next year, but obviously they are no better than tilapia for my purpose if i cannot carry them through all 4 season.


all good info thanks. If i can source them i will definately try..

i have good aeration.. a ecoplus commercial 7..( i know you gave bad reviews in ponds but my tanks are only 4' deep max) with two quad diffuser (2.82 cfm), so in my case i feel comfortable with my aeration even in hot summer.

This next year i will also be building a trellis and growing a hops canopy over my fish tank for shade. Hops is a thick vigorous plant that dies back down to its roots every winter.. so it can shade in the summer and get out of the way for full sun on my tanks in the winter... plus i can brew with them =)

brian

Lusk stocked some smallies a few years ago, and I want to say he never saw them again.

If you were to achieve a viable smallie population, I think it would include a few years of stocking, and over a few year classes, you might get smallies that would be more tolerable of Texas conditions.

Bill is correct, the heat for smallies is not the problem - it's where they live.
Smallmouth bass do very well in moderate turbid water with lots of rocks and gravel.
Lake Texoma and Whitney in Texas are two of the best kept secret SMB lakes in the country and I have the photo documentstiom to prove it...

George this is an interesting list:

Texas Top 50 Smallmouth Bass

But some are much more cannabilistic than others Dave. I started out with over 700 smallmouth bass in two tanks, and ended up with less than 200. That would never happen with my bluegills or yellow perch.

The most extreme example I've seen was with tiger musky fingerlings in tanks, I observed one summer, while stationed at a state fish hatchery, as a biologist aid. The fish, all the same size would suddenly grab another fish next to it and slowly swallow and digest it.

Walleyes are another example of a very cannibalistic fish, so much so, that they have to be constantly graded in tanks or cages.

Thanks Mark, I had not seen that list.
I have one Texoma certified smallie that would have made that list another certified near miss - not into records though.

Should have submitted Mrs. G's first documented smallie caught after original stocking in early 80's - published in Dallas News.

Cecil, I once watched some 1.5 inch LMB. One of the little suckers nailed the other one. More that half of the victim was sticking out of the others mouth. No doubt in my mind that the predator also died. He/she could hardly swim and would have been easy picking for anything in the water.