Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Selecting a site Brand new pond any many things to learn!

OK so I just joined this forum today but I have been reading through posts for the past week. Let me start from the beginning...

I should have been researching all this first, but I didnt realize it was so complex until coming on here.

I chose a low area that is the main draining point for about 20 acres of land. There is about 2 feet of black loom with clay down to the limestone.

The total area of the pond is 180X130. About 1/2 acre.

Max depth is 8 feet along the entire one side then grading up to about 4 feet along the other side. I basically followed the limestone leaving about 1-2 feet of clay on top of the rock.

I wasn't thinking it would fill up so quickly but after trenching the back fields and a couple days of rain, I'm now sitting at about 6 feet and still filling. I would have liked to have gone deeper but I was limited because the rock.

The water shed enters through the back of the pond where a channel about 10 feet wide is graded from 4 feet to nothing.

So for some questions,

My plan is to stock it with FHM and BG in the next few weeks. Then in the spring put a few adult LMB. Thoughts? Is it too soon to put the BG and FHM? Should I get an aerator since there is no vegetation for oxygen? Will LMB live in such a shallow pond? I live in Ontario Canada so it will get about 18 inches of ice in the dead of the winter.

After looking at some of the photos on these forums I quickly learned my dream pond is quite tiny and simple in comparison.

Thanks for any suggestions you guys have. There is such a wealth of knowledge on here but almost everything I have read is on massive ponds that were well thought out. This is what I have and I need to make work!

Thanks again

Jason

Sorry the pictures were about 10m each so I had to shrink them down some of them didn't turn out right but you get the idea.

I wouldn't put in adult LMB. They might not acclimate to the pond, and you might not have enough food for them in the pond. FHM won't support adult LMB.

Each LMB, to put on one pound of weight has to eat 10# of fish.

Welcome, Jason. That will be a really pretty spot you've got.

For every "massive pond that was well thought out" that you see on the forum, I'll bet there are 10 that are closer to what you've got...and some of the best, most unique ponds here are the size of yours, or even smaller.

At this point, you appear to have already successfully passed one of the first hurdles-your pond is holding water. Congratulations!

So to my mind, there are two really important questions to answer right now:

1] Will you need aeration of some type, regardless of your choice of fish types, to prevent winterkill.
------I don't have enough experience with northern ponds to answer this, but I'm sure someone else will.

2] What are your goals for this pond?
------That will help us help you with what to add and when.

Well my goals are pretty simple, I want to take the canoe out, sit on the dock, lay on the hammock. I cant afford waterfront property so I'm bringing the water to me.

I would like to have a few varieties of fish. This will depend on which would do best based on the water depth, temperature and pond size. I would love to have some breeding LMB. I don't need many but a dozen large ones would be nice. I could do a little catch and release. Maybe throw some frogs in every once in a while and watch them smash them! Minnows and blue gills would be nice to see swimming around.

I also plan on skating on it in the winter and playing some pond hockey.

A shallow pond in Ontario sounds like a set-up for a winter kill

That's what I was worried about, Hence why I came on here looking for advice. If I have enough aeration during the winter months will I have enough oxygen?

What fish would people recommend I put in it and how long do I wait before I first start stocking it?

In the future I could probably drain it down and take another 2' of clay off the bottom. But that will be a last ditch effort. I have fished lakes around here that are large in square acres but don't get more then 6 feet deep, So I know it is possible. Just need to reach the balance.

So you're saying I shouldn't put LMB in this year but can I go ahead and put blue gills and FHM before winter?

At your location (way north) I would skip LMB. SMB would be better. Aeration in a pond like that can cause super cooling which can kill fish. But you have to keep the DO up.

I would make sure the winter aeration diffuser is no deeper than 3' to leave a warm water refuge for the fish.

BG and SMB don't usually mesh well together. I would aim for FHM/YP/SMB but send a message to Bill Cody before you do anything.

There are lots of things you can learn before next spring. You can add FHM in November or wait until spring Apr-May. FHM and about all fish species will not grow much over winter when the water is too cold for warmwater fish growth and activity. In the mean time the food chain starting with phytoplankton and zooplankton is developing immediately since you have 6 ft of water. Cool weather insect larvae will quickly establish. Use the winter months to read and plan your goals and how to proceed with what to stock and how to set up your aeration system. There are lots and lots of options for both topics.

First thing to decide is if you are willing to feed the fish pellets. Feeding is not necessary. Pellet feeding results in more, bigger fish on average, if numbers are kept reasonable. If you don't feed the fish number and average sizes tend to be smaller. To have larger fish if you do not feed, the secret is to keep fish numbers real low per acre so the few remaining fish always have lots of natural foods to stay fat and growing.

I think BG & LMB are definite possibilities in your pond. However both tend to overproduce in small ponds. Actually they could be too productive, run out of food, and not do real well as far as good, rapid growth, unless you actively manage to keep their numbers low. Annually trapping, angling and harvesting.

Other options to consider in southern(?)Ontario are trout from Sept to July. Shallow water aeration will usually keep water in a corner open enough for occasional feeding of trout on nice days in winter. Pond will be fishless July&Aug which allows the pond to recover and rebuild the food chain. Annual trout restocking is necessary. This works good if you have a trout farm for restocking within 100 miles of you.

Other options are minnows/shiners, yellow perch (pellet trained or wild), and walleye(WE) or smallmouth bass(SMB)as predators - not both. SMB & WE tend to not work well with BG without special management efforts. Actually WE would be better the better predator for YP, because you have the best, easiest control of the numbers of predators whereas SMB often overpopulate and eliminate the minnows and then eat too many of the small perch leaving too few adult perch for table use. Fixing this involves harvesting some SMB when they become numerous and revelry reduce or eliminate the abundant minnows which is a signal - there are too many bass! Remember larger perch are eating minnows too. IMO 5-8 WE in a perch pond your size would do a pretty good job of keeping perch density lower and yet allow enough minnows/shiners to reproduce especially if there is some weed cover such as hardy hybrid water lilies as habitat and aesthetics. Research proper water lilies (dwarfs & smalls) for small fish ponds.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=110943#Post110943

Awesome information already this site is great!

Thanks for all the details Bill Cody. I was researching the Hardy lilies last night until I fell asleep and plan to get them going first thing in the spring.

I have a nice little hatchery down the road and am heading there today to pick up some FHM and shinners.

Ill do some research over the winter as you had mentioned before adding any predator fish. I would love to have a handful of LMB and a couple NP but I guess I have some reading to do to ensure lots of food. I guess I figured if I gave the sunfish and minnows time to produce a bunch they could get a head start on some catch and release predators from the lake.

I would like to feed some fish but I am not sold on brining in trout. seems to get pricey and my pond is so shallow I would worry about it being to warm?


Thanks again for the responses. I will continue to research before making any big moves!

I am doing the FHM, WE, YP, BC formula in the same-sized pond as yours, but you may want to hold on the BC. At least wait until I have a few more years of them in my pond to report if they over-multiply or not. I only have FHM for forage, and they are disappearing fast thanks to too many mouths at the table.

Also ladder-stock the WE, meaning only a few per year (3-4) for a couple of years to give a chance for other fish to establish multiple size classes of YP for forage and reproduction. Then you have to replace WE as you harvest them over the years since they wont multiply in a pond.

I am finding it tough to get lilies established in my pond as there are not enough nutrients in the bottom clay to support them. To get them started you may have to jump through some serious hoops, like planting them in coconut basket containers full of pond planting medium sunken and "nailed" to the appropriate depths.

Good to know thanks again for the help!

I started a small pond last year for my wife and her Koi (See the picture). I started some hardy lillies in there in pots. (couldn't find a pic of the lilies) They did great so maybe Ill just keep them in pots and put them in a few places around the pond.

For the lily pond lilies, transplant them into larger shallow tubs (12"x16" to 16"x24") and set them into the big pond for 1 year. In the 2nd year pull them out of the tubs and plop the root mass in 2-4ft deep on the muddy pond bottom. If the geese and turtles don't get them they will grow just fine. If you buy new ones start with the red and pink ones which tend to spread slower than the whites and yellows.

As CJ mentions be cautious about adding pike. As pike grow they will tend to eat larger and larger prey and often that prey are your other slender bodied juvenile and young predators such as bass or WE and bigger YP not the minnows. If you want a lion in with your fox and chickens then add a pike.

Thanks again Bill, I will do that with the lilies in the spring. Can't wait for this winter to be over and it hasn't even started! Darn all you southerners.

As for the pike, maybe I will hold off. I was just hoping to put a couple in but if you think the will eat to much of the other predators maybe I wont I just think there the coolest fish !

Cheers!