Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Creating habitat Ideal Construction Features/Habitat - YP & WE

Made some decisions about my goals for the pond I have under construction now. I'll call it pond #2 since my smaller duck pond was dug first, but it's closer to the house and will be my main/largest pond. Estimated 1.5-2.0/ac (link to initial post with some more details here) first thread

I�d like to have a YP dominant pond (managed for ongoing max harvest of market/eating sized fish).

For predator species, I�d like more/smaller WE to control YP reproduction and occasionally harvest for the table (with the idea that I will re-stock as needed).

I�d also like to include a few novelty fish for diversity / angling excitement compared to just YP and WE and HSB seems the most commonly suggested for this. CJBS2003 also suggested RES


Digging now (Fall 2013) means I may be able to stock minnows in Fall 2013 if I get enough water so I�ll create another post for the exact stocking number / ratio recommendations and keep a master build thread start to finish with pics but wondering for now�

With the goals/species above in mind and just beginning to move dirt:

1. What should my goals be for average/and max depth?

(I think the NCRAC perch culture guide recos 12-14' but room/budget for dirt removal will not permit this depth for whole pond)

2. What would you do (to the pond bottom) to provide best habitat/angling opportunities for the species above? (ie. channels, humps, gravel beds, more/less shallow areas, sunken islands, deep holes)

3. What % of aquatic vegetation should I aim for and best to locate that on shoreline/submerged island or both?

Goal is: ""I�d like to have a YP dominant pond (managed for ongoing max harvest of market/eating sized fish).""

1.Are you going to feed these perch in this 1.5ac pond?
2. How many YP 8"-11" do you expect to harvest per year?
Once we narrow down the goals advice will be more appropriate.

A to Q1: I plan to supplement with minnows raised in forage pond and possibly pellets, but I have yet to determine if I can obtain pellet trained YP in my area and the economics of feeding (I am imagining the aquamax in not cheap).

A to Q2: I was hoping PBF could advise me on the max # that I could expect to harvest once I provided more details on exact size and stocking/feeding program.

BIGGER Q: Would my answers change your recommendations for habitat/bottom contour design of the pond? I don't want to turn down any help or advice you can offer at this point. I was more concerned currently with "designing the bottom" at this point than the stocking program but you are probably asking because they are realated so let me know how I can help you help me and I'll try to provide the answers. Thanks again.

There are several very good YP aquaculture sites with info. If you are trying to max food production then you should follow the ideas on YP aquaculture.

The goal determines all the rest (structure , feeding , stocking etc.).

I had posted a fish source in your above link that is about an hour from you. Be sure to check them out. Call to confirm, but they told me they have feed trained YP. I am sure Bill Cody knows of a lot more places, if you are willing to travel further.

Well here is my story if you so choose to read.

My wife and I bought our farm in 1993...Wish I had bought two but eh. From the day we completed the transaction the lay of the land needed a lovely pond in the front yard.

I had and have the same goals as you for the pond. I have spent years and year reading and planing our pond. Using my fishing experience and what I have learned here my wife and I designed our own pond right down to the last detail. A year ago now this past spring we pulled the trigger on it can built the pond.

The shape is kidney shape for maximum wave action.
There is a shallow ridge between two deep ends. Ridge has pea stone and chips for spawning.
One deep end is 16 feet and other 14 feet.
Water fall 10 feet wide 8 feet tall with river rock at bottom of falls. This is the hope walleye will spawn at least the shiners will.
The shore line is all 4" rip rap crushed concrete. High PH and sharp edges for the FHM to spawn on as well. Crayfish love this for their shell growth (high PH) and hiding places.
Shallow ridge is to be covered with Lilly pads and brush piles for perch spawning.
Rolled in a few 3 foot X 4 foot concrete tiles for hiding areas for large perch and walleye.
Shore line has evergreen trees around but two maples. Just want to limit the leaves in the pond. Trees arranged on sun set side to shade the pond on the shallow ridge as best as we can. Perch like to eat around 45 mins before sun set.
Pellet trained perch to allow the minnow stock to grow as best as possible. Feeder placed on the sun set side of the pond to maximize feeding time.
Two air stations one in each deep end.
Waterfall runs on a 12 hour timer running at night. Pond fill to manage full pool is pumped in over the water fall with floats switches.

All I can say is maybe its the engineer in me but it all works and works very well. I have never seen so so much life in a pond so fast. We have friends with ponds that do not have one quarter the life we have... but we feed our fish and other do not. BIG difference the biggest of all.

Building it is the easy part. Managing is the fun and difficult part.

Cheers Don.

DonoBBD, that's an awesome pond! The dock looks great and if it weren't for our high winds, I'd love that gazebo to hang out under in the summertime.

Wow what a awesome pond. I have been wanting to do a waterfall also in a small pond and have the water run 75 yards to my large pond or possibly do what you did. I just need a few details if you don't mind? What kind of pump are you using what voltage and how much does it cost per month to run it?

A to Q1. If think if one puts a pencil to cost or raising perch using minnows vs using high protein pellets such as Aquamax the overall best way is to use pellets. One of the reasons is because pellets are what commercial YP growers use instead of minnows. So ideally for most production one would use primarily pellets and supplement with minnows which is how I do it. This whole topic cycles back to my original question of how much production do you expect or want realistically for 1.5 - 2 ac? Once I know how many perch you want to harvest, use or eat per year then we can better fine tune how to best grow that many fish annually.

A to Q2. We can advise how many to harvest but that is based on how the fishery is managed or how one wants to grow the fish. Numerous variables enter into this equation: final size of the pond, with pellets, without pellets, how many pellets, supplemental minnows, existing minnows, type of minnnows/shiners, other predators, natural pond fertility, pond alkalinity, water clarity, amount of organic and inorganic suspended detritus versus phytoplankton, amount of biofilm (periphyton), degree or amount of aeration, amount of submerged / emergent vegetation and amount of predation that occurs.

Depending on the above variables the harvest can be somewhere from a low of 20-30 lbs/ac to a high of 110-150 lbs/ac. Estimates were from my 3 articles about raising YP in ponds for Farm Pond Harvest Magazine. New updated articles about YP are in prepreation for Pond Boss magazine for hopefully 2014. For reference, average standard weight of YP: 8"= 0.26lb, 10"=0.5lb, 12"=0.95lb. 100 lbs of 8" YP is about 400 fish/ac. 2ac = 800 8" perch. That is a lot of angling and perch to eat each year. I harvest around 30-40 YP each year from my 0.6ac pond (48-64/ac).

How many YP are stocked initially doesn't really have much to do with the long term harvest rate because after the first YP spawn, the potential of full carrying capacity is "born" or hatched. How many of those hatchlings survive is determined by all the variables in the above paragraph.

An article titled "Trading Nutrients for Fish" in Mar-Apr 2012 PBoss magazine stated that in a very fertile, productive well managed Montana pond with abundant biofilm growing on floating islands and containing yellow perch, black crappie, and cutthroat trout, owners were able to harvest 295 YP per acre. Let's assume these perch averaged 0.5 lb ea (10"ers) this equates to 147.5 lbs of harvested YP/acre. This is very close to high range estimate of 150 lbs/ac in my YP articles.

Don,

That is an awsome pond. I'm not an engineer but a planner so I try to convince people every day that an ounce of prevention is worth pounds of cure. There's nothing to be ashamed of there, you did it the right way. I too have been researching for a while. Bought this property in 2009 and have been planning the ponds since. Excited to pull the trigger and this forum has been a giant help so far thanks to everyone that takes the time to respond and spread the knowledge.

What is the water depth over your shallow ridge?



Bill,

Wow! Food for thought, and lot's of it. Now that you have given me some ranges to think about, let's say that my harvest goal is mid-range at 75#'s acre (or roughly 150 quantity of 10" YP per acre per year). I will also feed pellets but have no idea how many because im not sure how many they (the number of YP that will in the pond eventually) will eat in 15 minutes? Am I correct that is the recommended feeding? I also have no clue what dollar amout it would take to feed that many perch at recommended rate but Ill do some research and hopefully it is not so expensive that it changes my goals for the pond as I'm building it to reduce stress and enjoy. So in summary, feed trained YP, pellets, supplement FHM and one other variety that is recommended and available.

Does that get us close to some design concepts? I'm assuming the other variables can't be answered until pond is complete and full.

Thanks again.
Bryan

Nice work Don !

Bryan there is a lot of info and expertise here. Best advice to start is really learn how everything fits together and think about the goal for the entire pond - all aspects - before make a decision. Part of that process is to ask questions just as you did.

Thanks everyone for the kind words about our pond. Its been years planing and all worth the wait!





This is my falls pump.

A waterfall pump with a magnetic-driven motor. 5,500 GPH at 0'. 26' Head. Magnet-driven vortex and replaceable impeller. Fits 1�'' tubing. Includes filter grid to protect impeller from large mechanical debris. Can be installed horizontally and vertically.

Video of 5500 gpm.

When the fill pumps run and put another 8600gpm over there is allot of white water over the falls. I do not know what or how much power the max flow pulls for hydro. I do have it on a timer and it runs 14 hours from 6pm to about 8am.

Bryan on the ridge at full pool it is 5 to 3 feet deep. The shade side of the ridge is much shallower so the lilly pads have less water to grow through and will start much sooner in the spring. The will spread out more than spend most of there time and energy growing up to reach the surface.

Cheers Don.

Producing 75 lbs of YP harvest per acre will depend on how fertile the pond in addition to feeding pellets. Assuming an average pond fertility in OH, I estimate it will take around 4 bags of Aquamax per acre per year for feeding the entire pond (8-10 bags for 2 ac). Current cost of Aquamax is around $40 per 50 lbs. 200 lbs of Aquamax (4bags) should cause an increase of fish biomass of around 120 - 150 lbs since the fish also have access to natural foods. To gain 120 lbs of fish biomass utilizing all natural foods it would take around 1200 lbs of bugs and small fish. Minnows cost around $5-$8/lb. One could feed just at one station in the 1.5 ac which would result in less harvestable production; maybe only 50 lbs per ac which is still a lot of perch as harvest per year.

Great information here. Bruce Kania of Floating Islands International can be reached through his website and can surely add some help when it comes to transitioning nutrients into perch.