Pond Boss Forums AQUATIC VEGETATION Controlling unwanted plants Cide Kick and Arsenal

Kelly and others

I am going to spray the sweetgums underneath pines with Arsenal (active ingredient imazapyr). The directions call for a non-ionic surfactant. Will cide-kick work?

Thanks

Frank

Frank - if you're planning a foliar application (topical application to the tree's leaves), I would generally suggest avoiding CIDE-KICK, for reasons explained in some recent discussions surrounding HABITAT (i.e. - CK could "burn" the leaf tissue too quickly and reduce herbicide uptake and tranport within the plant's vascular system).

Instead, use a quality conventional non-ionic surfactant or a methylated seed oil (with or without an organosilicone component for increase droplet-speading activity).

This isn't to say that CIDE-KICK "will not work". I simply believe there are better alternatives to use with systemic herbicides (such as ARSENAL et al).

Kelly

Thanks. That was my concern. Can you please tell me what you mean by conventional non-ionic surfactant or a methylated seed oil.

What is a conventional non-ionic surfactant? Can you give me a brand name?

And what seed oil? Thanks

Frank

Frank
"Conventional non-ionic surfactant" is probably a redundant term. Virtually all surfactants produced for pesticide applications are non-ionics. However, many other types of surfactants exist.
For example, surfactants are added to dishwashing soap to increase the "wettability" of the surface that is being washed with the detergent. But, for whatever reason, the surfactants found in soaps are usually anionic - rather than non-ionic. Accordingly, dish soap is not well suited for pesticide applications, although many folks seem to think they're saving money by using "soap" instead of commercial non-ionic surfactants. Truth be know, dishwashing soap contains no where near the same level (nor type) of surfactant that is found in "most" commercial surfactants that are designed for pesticide applications.
Methylated seed oil (MSO) is usually made from soybean oil. MSOs are produced by reacting methanol with whole soybean oil in a process called "transesterification," which changes soybean triglyceride into soybean methyl ester.
The details get quite a bit deeper, but probably aren't critical for you to fully understand.
I will email you an article that I wrote quite awhile back about surfactant quality parameters. Maybe with a better understanding of the role played by surfactants and the characteristics that determine a quality surfactant, you will be better prepared to grill your chemical supplier(s) in search of a surfactant that is suitable for your needs.

Kelly,
Could I also get a copy? I need to know more about surfactants.
Thanks Kelly,
Ric

Kelly - Plese send me a copy of your article about surfactants. OR get Lusk to republish it with some new updates in PBoss mag! Thanks a lot.

Kelly :

I would like to read the info also. ewest