Pond Boss Forums AQUATIC VEGETATION Identifying plants Pondweed or ?

Thought it was some sort pondweed but after looking at all the pondweed photos that doesn't appear to be it. I am looking to eradicate about 1/2 of it and leave the remainder. That may be a difficult proposition so if it all goes hopefully something more native will come back. I haven't seen this weed in many if any of the local ponds. It is intermixed with what I call saw grass which I also want to get rid of. I tried puling it out but it really is rough and cuts your hands badly. Any ideas what these are? The first two photos are what it looks like a week after being cut down. the last few photos are what it looks like after it starts to develop seed heads or flowers. http://www.msnusers.com/FOZZYBEARSAV/ppondweeds.msnw?Page=1

Foz: I'm not positive, but your plant somewhat resembles one of the Sagittaria species - maybe Sagittaria lancifolia, based on the fruiting structure shown in one of your pictures.

Go to this link and see if you agree:
Duck Potatoe

Very, very close. Not 100% positive but looks alot like it. The leaves just might not be as big. Does that grow in the northern climates? and what would be the best to use to get rid of it? Looks the most like this picture. http://plants.ifas.ufl.edu/msaglan2.jpg

fozzyb- From your pictures esp the one with the white flowers,, I also think you have a plant in the arrowhead genus: Sagittaria. FYI: S. lancifolia typically does not grow in MI, but S. latifolia is common in MI. I am not sure of the species unless I can see a better, close-up photo of leaves, flowers or individual seeds. MI has 6 different species of arrowhead and since the leaves can be variable shaped most taxonomic keys use the flowers and seed shape as separating characters. Since your pictures did not show leaves from a mature flowering plant the other possible name is "water plantain" (Alisma spp.) which can be easily confused with some arrowheads.

Bill, Thats It! American Water Plantain. I have an overabundance of it. What is the best way to get rid of that and Sawgrass?

If you want to kill it back, I would use herbicides that contain glyphosate. In my pond, (I am not a licensed applicator), I typically use Roundup if only very little of it gets in the water. This water plantain plant always finds a way to colonize bare soil areas around water.

I used to get concerned and worried about this plant and would kill this stuff. Not any more. It is a good shoreline plant; it never becomes a problem, does not grow very tall or thick like cattails, holds the soil to the bank, provides good cover for frogs and best of all does not grow in water deeper than 6" or 8". Plus it does not look all that bad. If I don't want it in some areas, in those areas, I plant water iris or short (slender) spike rush (Eleocharis acicularis).

PS: In MI, You probably have cut-grass (Leersia oryzoides) not saw grass.

I don't really mind the looks of it in most locations but it is growing all the way areound the pond and is growing in 3 " to 3 FEET of water so I am getting alot of it. Thanks for the grass correction. Do you mean "Roundup" that you buy at Home Depot? What happens if some of it gets in the water?

Fozzyb. I sent you an official email from your PBoss profile above, thanks for including it in your profile; check it.

Round-Up at retail stores is not licensed for use around or over-water spraying where it can get into water. The surfactant (soapy or slipery mixture that allows better chemical penetration into leaves) in Round-Up has been found to cause some problems with some water organisms. There are now some glysophate compounds with "water friendly" surfactants that are sold retail in smaller amounts (pint). I would have to go to the local store to get a brand name that I have seen for sale in our area.

Kelly can maybe provide some brand names.

GLYPHOSATE 41 (mfgr: PBI Gordon - available in 1-gal. jugs) is the only aquatic-labeled formulation of glyphosate that already contains a surfactant - to my knowledge. All of the other aquatic-glyphosate products must have a separate "aquatic-friendly" surfactant added to the tank-mix (ie. RODEO, AQUAMASTER, GLYPRO, EAGRE, RAZOR, etc.)

Water Plantain has been mentioned here before as being one of the beneficial water plants for a pond environment. I have this plant growing around one of my ponds and the minnows enjoy using this as a base for cover. I would like to establish this plant in another pond. What would be the best time of year to transplant this species?

Russ

Russ - First some backgound:
In all my books I can find 3, maybe 4 species of water plantain - genus Alisma (A.): 1 Northern water plantain, Alisma triviale; 2 southern water plantain A. subcordatum; and 3. grass leaved or narrow leaved water plantain, A. gramineum; and 4. one just called water plantain A. plantago-aquatica; which may be a synonym of one of those above. I find no mention of American water-plantain in my technical books. Although in one of my books it says that all North American plants belong to the taxonomic variety americanum. I assume Am. water plantain is the most common form of one of the above four species.

Water plantain is a perennial plant with a thick tuberous rhizome and it regrows each year from root stock. Also it reproduces from seed when conditons are favorable. It can be divided by spliting the clump of roots. Seeds will sprout but will sprout quicker if the seed coat is broken to shorten germination time.

I am somewhat puzzled by Fozzyb's' statement that his plantws are growing in up to 3 ft of water. I have never seen it grow this deep and my books indicate that if it is growing deeper the leaves will be long and ribbon-like, similar to eel grass. "Water Plants for MO Ponds" says it does not spread to the point of crowding out other plants and remains close to shore in shallow water or ankle deep water. Again, in deeper water it's supposed to form narrow leaves like long ribbons. I still wonder if Fozzyb. has his plant identifed correctly. A close up pictue of the flowering part would sure help me with a more positive ID.

Bill, what part of the plant do you want a close up picture of? I can get it and post it toonight when I get home. It starts in 3" of water and grows out to about 3 feet. I have done a lot of looking on the net for water plantain and boy the pictures it shows as well as the seed heads sure look like it. Basically all I have around the edge of the pond is water plantain, bull rushes and cut grass.

If you take a photo at a minimum, photograph the seed head; maybe put something behind the seed head so it shows up well. If possible get a picture of the stuff (leaves) that is growing in deeper water where the leaves are sticking out of the water. One plant (close up 2'-4' away) is fine instead of numerous plants together.

Best I can do Bill, I hope this clears it up as to what type of plant it is.

http://www.msnusers.com/FOZZYBEARSAV/ppondweeds.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=41

http://www.msnusers.com/FOZZYBEARSAV/ppondweeds.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=40

Total plant height above water with seed head is averaging about 32"

fozzyb - Good pictures. It is northern water plantain - Alisma triviale and definately not Arrowhead - Sagittaria. Plants around NW Ohio do not grow that large and if large do not grow in that deep of water. Do you have very many in water 3' deep?

Bill, The entire perimeter of the Pond has water plantain on it. about 700 lineal feet. The entire pond has fairly steep side slopes on it so it gets deep rather quickly, with one exception. As can be seen on this picture from last year for the most part it does start out shallow but the area in the foreground of the picture is about 2 to 3 feet deep and you can see the remnants of the water plantain there. It doesn't grow really well in deeper water as can be seen in the photo and the browish dying leaves but it does grow there. http://www.msnusers.com/FOZZYBEARSAV/misc.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=14

Interesting situation. How long has it been growing in water deeper than 1 ft?

This is the second year. Pond was dug in fall of 2002.

I predict the plantain will naturally die out in another year or two especialy in water deeper than 6". Cut grass should also gradually die out in water deeper the 12". You could wait till later to herbicide it and see if I am corrrect. 50% chance I am wrong.

50% chance to save money..Hmmmm I think I will wait. Thanks Bill.

If it was mine I also would wait.

As an experiment, When ice is safe enough to walk on try with a shovel to cut off any tops at ice level. Also if you can before freeze-up see if you can cut some of the plants off in a small area below the water level so ice freezes over the tops. Mark the spot and see how regrowth appears next spring.