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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,840
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,840 |
A pond we fish have both HBG and BG in it. Depending on where you fish and the baits sometime determine what you catch.
This pond was stocked probably 15-20 years ago and still has both of them in it as well as some nice CC, and huge GC.
It is a neat pond for sure and cannot believe the decent fish that come out after all these years.
My dad has been feeding it and I told him it is time to get the feeder setup. He is amazed at what a difference the feed has made. They are not going to be trophy size do to many factors but at least there is some taking on a decent amount of weight to make them large enough to eat.
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 275
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 275 |
I have 2 ponds, the smaller being in my front yard. I dug it and started from scratch with only hybrid bluegill (which I fed) just for the grandkids and visitor's kids to fish for. They did great for a couple years and then I started catching strange looking sunfish just like those in your pictures. Big head, big eyes, fat gut, and very small bodies. The state fish biologist said they were from the HBG that reproduced reverting to whatever they were crossed with. They never get enough meat on them to eat no matter how much I feed them. I let a river fisherman seine them out to use for trot line bait.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,712 Likes: 3
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent  Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,712 Likes: 3 |
As I posted about a month back in this thread, I'm concerned where to go with a 14 month old, 1/4 to 1/3 acre pond. It is drainable and seinable. The goal was a put-and-take pond with good fishing for the grandkids and guests, plus some good eating.
Last May I put in 100 HBG, 25 CC, and several pounds of fatheads. In June I put in 50 RES and two 4-inch koi. I ran out of time to get trout in for the winter.
The HBG have grown well. The 1-2 inch HBG are now 3-5 inches. I never see the CC. The 4-inch koi have grown to 12-14 inches. There are fatheads everywhere from eggyolk-size to about 2-inches. (They were meant as a "welcome" for the winter trout.)
I was planning on putting in another 150 HBG and 25 CC two weeks from now.
But, this thread now has me wondering. How do I manage this pond long term? Do I add more HBG, or do I need to begin converting it to regular bluegill and predator pond? I don't want to start over every year or two with fingerlings. Larger fish are really hard to find in this area.
This pond doesn't get the wind and turbulence of my other pond. It caught a lot of oak leaves last fall, which turned to FA this spring. I've raked the shallow areas. I sure would like to get some tilapia this season, I just can't find any within several hundred miles. Anybody know of any in WV, PA, or VA?
Thanks all - Ken
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,315
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,315 |
As I posted about a month back in this thread, I'm concerned where to go with a 14 month old, 1/4 to 1/3 acre pond. It is drainable and seinable. The goal was a put-and-take pond with good fishing for the grandkids and guests, plus some good eating.
Last May I put in 100 HBG, 25 CC, and several pounds of fatheads. In June I put in 50 RES and two 4-inch koi. I ran out of time to get trout in for the winter.
The HBG have grown well. The 1-2 inch HBG are now 3-5 inches. I never see the CC. The 4-inch koi have grown to 12-14 inches. There are fatheads everywhere from eggyolk-size to about 2-inches. (They were meant as a "welcome" for the winter trout.)
I was planning on putting in another 150 HBG and 25 CC two weeks from now.
But, this thread now has me wondering. How do I manage this pond long term? Do I add more HBG, or do I need to begin converting it to regular bluegill and predator pond? I don't want to start over every year or two with fingerlings. Larger fish are really hard to find in this area.
This pond doesn't get the wind and turbulence of my other pond. It caught a lot of oak leaves last fall, which turned to FA this spring. I've raked the shallow areas. I sure would like to get some tilapia this season, I just can't find any within several hundred miles. Anybody know of any in WV, PA, or VA?
Thanks all - Ken I believe tilapia in PA is illegal... As you know, Sparkplug sure does have nice HBG. He can do it, why can't you.......
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,712 Likes: 3
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,712 Likes: 3 |
As you know, Sparkplug sure does have nice HBG. He can do it, why can't you....... Yeah. My goal would really be to what Sparkplug has achieved. Kidnapping and blackmail have been in the back of my mind ...  Thankfully, he has shared a lot of his knowledge with the rest of us.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458 Likes: 2
Ambassador
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Ken, tilapia are illegal in VA, MD and PA, not sure about WV. I am surprised you're having such an issue with FA in a new pond like that even with there being a good number of oak leaves getting into it. Is it extremely widespread, if not maybe spot treat it?
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,712 Likes: 3
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Travis -- we can have tilapia in WV. If they come from out of state, we are supposed to get an importation permit. That is it.
I'm just not able to find a source. Some WVU friends have gotten them in past years from Alabama and Louisiana, but they had to drive down and back with tanks.
The FA is pretty much in less than 12 inches of water. I hand feed that pond most evenings. When I do, I use a garden rake to pull out the leaves and FA in certain areas. Most of the shoreline, out as far as the rake reaches, has been raked as of this evening, Very little FA remains.
My banks are too steep to clean the edges with my tractor and landscape rake. I tried using my 2-inch semi-trash pump to pull out the FA, but the leaves and FA clogged the impeller.
I need to find, or make a much wider rake. I've been thinking about finding a used 4-5 foot wide landscape rake and welding up a hitch to use in place of the bucket on my tractor backhoe.
Ken
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980 Likes: 15
Ambassador Lunker
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Ambassador Lunker
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980 Likes: 15 |
Ken, I'm concerned about whether or not the CC will control your HBG numbers. In my opinion, there are two "Golden rules" where HBG are concerned:
Provide supplemental feed, and take measures to limit their numbers. This strategy is no different than growing trophy native BG, although perhaps the way I go about it might be regarded as unusual?....be that as it may, nearly everything I do from a management perspective revolves around those two points. I believe that the HBG's severe male bias is regarded as a safety net by some pond managers and hatchery personnel alike, and is probably relied on too heavily.
There's certainly not as many females as there are in a native BG population, but then again it doesn't take many......they must be stocked together with a predator. Otherwise, you end up with what poppy65 describes in his post. I'm on year 4 with my HBG, and I don't see what he describes.
I'm not about to suggest that the way I do things somehow accounts for my large HBG....I just don't know enough to say one way or the other. But I would be happy to detail my ideas and thoughts on the matter if it might help someone.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,712 Likes: 3
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,712 Likes: 3 |
Tony -- thanks.
I am feeding by hand, to satiation, each day. I will probably set up the timed feeder this week, now that I know how much food they are consuming each day.
As for controlling recruitment -- that is where I am stuck. I was very surprised to see how many FHMs are in the pond this season. I figured the CC and HBG would have wiped them out over the winter.
What are you using to control the HBG offspring? If using predator fish, like LMB, how do you re-stock without the new stock being eaten?
Ken
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980 Likes: 15
Ambassador Lunker
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Ambassador Lunker
Joined: Jun 2008
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I do use LMB in a strictly sacrificial role. As far as adding new HBG, I cage them until they are large enough to escape predation. I have 100 smaller fish in a cage right now....... they've been there for 6 weeks and will probably remain there for another 6.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458 Likes: 2
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame Lunker
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Ambassador
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Posts: 10,458 Likes: 2 |
Ken,
Could you use HSB along with a single LMB or a hand full of known single sex LMB to help control the reproduction? It's been my experience CC are not very good by themselves at controlling HBG reproduction, especially when they are under 18".
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,840
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,840 |
Again the pond we have rights to fish have had some recruitment of the HBG but they seem healthy at this point. Now they are not trophy size but close to large enough to eat in my book.
Not sure if the CC and LMB are keeping most in check or not, but like I said this pond has not been stocked in over 15 years so they fish have to be reproducing. The water has been Gin clear as well which I find as a concern and have tried to convince my dad to try and fertilize this year to see what happens, but since we have never done this before we would have to be careful.
I hope to get out there in the next few weeks to fish and set the feeder back up so I will report back if possible, but those are the most aggressive HBG I have caught in some time. There is not a bait they will not hit.
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 32
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 32 |
I to am interested on HBG reproduction control and am curious what a good stocking of Kentucky spotted bass would do since them have smaller mouths then there larger cousin it would making restocking HBG easier yet should help with the controll of offspring fry and fingerlings given there aggressive nature.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,550 Likes: 288
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,550 Likes: 288 |
Any LMB species will work on HBG control.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,255
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,255 |
IIRC, not much info on the forum on stocking KY bass, I remember one person doing it with a few, and reporting very aggressive, easy to catch fish. Might be good for purposes of offspring control, especially if you plan on recurrent restocking of harvested HBG, as you note. If the spots stayed at a smaller size, you wouldn't have to stock really large HBG in the future as you'd have to do with LMB.
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