Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Creating habitat What to do withToads?

I always have a over abundance of the Fowlers (most) & Southern Toads (#2 on the depth chart) around the property. In years past it has got to the point that I am constantly having to clean off toad droppings from the porch from May until Oct.. Right now I probably have 100 tadpoles for every linear foot around the 3ac pond in front of my house (about 100' downhill from level yard area)(pic attached of house and pond from last weekend to give you a feel of the lay out).
Any ideas on how to handle such a problem?

BTW I think part of what caused my Toad problem is I pretty much have cleaned up alot of the wooded and pond area to do away with the snakes that feed on them. Was thinking of the childrens safety there.

Remove the predator, the prey will thrive. Not sure there are any controls that will not also be toxic to the other aquatic life.

I have used a small net stretched across the bank( on land)to funnel young bullfrogs into a bucket I buried in the middle. They are probably attracted to your lights at night, and that could draw them up hill into the bucket. If you stretched it all the way across your yard in a big v with the bucket at the top. But I don't know how small they are when they morph into frogs u may not be able to find mesh that small. Just food for thought.

If you have that many toads, think of what harmful bugs and slugs they are eliminating! Much rather have toad crap than slugs all over.

Instar they had to go after having to stand still and be handed a board to pin the head of a mocassin down on my porch before I could move.

Cray good idea since all I want to do is decrease some of the numbers, I can then transport them to the 15 ac lake across the road.

Liquid about 90% of frogs carry some form of Salmonella. I have a toddler in the house and was thinking of ways to keep the over exposure from bringing too much risk to the house play area. Atleast until she reaches the CDC recommended age of 5.

Thanks to all.

Yeah, the kid equation makes a difference.

Since I grew up looking for frogs, turtles, snakes, and toads as pets by wading in swamps up to my eyeballs, I probably have been well vaccinated to most naturally occurring nasties. Explains a lot really...

Where did you get the information that 90% of wild frogs carry salmonella? I am aware of the problem in the pet trade, but not wild amphibians.

http://www.ehow.com/about_6568586_frogs-salmonella.html#page=0

Another source
"Salmonella By: Dr. Nancy Anderson"
Up to 90 percent of reptiles carry Salmonella in their intestinal tracts, which is then shed in the feces.

Reader beware! That site appears to collect articles by people that write articles for a living on many different topics without actual qualifications in the areas they write about. They probably just search the Internet and paste an article together.

Here are the professional qualifications of the writer that claims 90 percent of frogs carry salmonella:

Danyel Bierly began writing professionally in 1992. Her poems have appeared in "Expressions" magazine and her writing focuses on topics dealing with animals and health. Bierly received a certificate in dental assisting at Rio Salado College and is a lead dental assistant at a dental university.

I don't know about you but I'd trust an article on frogs from a certified professional in the field vs. a dental assistant that writes poems.

I recently read an article that warned about the dangers of mercury in farmed fish but the author had no credentials whatsoever in the field. Her degree was in psychology and it was obvious she had a bias against fish farming.

"The trouble with quotes on the Internet is you never know if they are genuine.” —Abraham Lincoln


'nuff said.

I am not a herpetologist, but I am a research scientist. I find that Google Scholar is a good way to see if any actual study supports claims. I could not find any study with wild frogs in North America, but there are papers on Australian frogs and the frog-leg trade. Just hate to see animals destroyed without a good reason.

Here is the FDA warning on Frogs.
http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/NewsEvents/CVMUpdates/ucm193349.htm

I just pulled info from the internet since I knew the local pediatricians are warning about Salmonella for children under 5. This all came about because of a recent trip to the Dr..

The Dr did not give a %, but just said most. I just did a quote from a person that had told me that when asked them to look it up origionally.

Any how frogs do pose a risk for little ones which is my point.

Thanks for the interest and the intentions to make sure I was aware of what I am talking about as the actual % may be wrong.

Rah I am looking to destroy, but control the problem I created for myself. I am a grog fan.

My thoughts exactly RAH!

Tums,

I don't think anyone was saying you aren't aware of what you are talking about. I know I wasn't. In fact I commend your diligence. I just know there are writers pulling stats out of their you know what that aren't close to being authorities in what they write about. It's even worse when they have a bias as in my fish farming example.

But we all need to be cautious and check the writers credentials and sources.

Once thing I've always found amusing with percentages is if something is 51 percent writers typically call that a majority. To me that's more like half!

Cecil, I understand and never took as anyone meaning any ill will. I (like all) will be wrong on occasions and need people to question for correction.

For you and RAH I had also posed this same question to some knowledgeable people that have been to my domicile. Here is some of the answers I received that seems pretty reasonable and environmental friendly.

1. Catch and move tadpoles by netting and move to your other lakes.
2. Place yellow insect lighting outside and close your blinds & curtains on the pond side of the house at night. This will stop you from drawing the frogs food source to your house.
3. Place Solar lighting in other areas to draw them and their food source another direction.
4. Have power company install lighting on poles on opposite side of pond to draw that direction.

If you are thinking about catching and removing the tadpoles it will be simpler and much easier to remove the eggs. Eggs don't swim and will lie still for several days before hatching for simplier netting for removal. Transport eggs to another location. Toad eggs are almost always laid along shore and stay there for several days for easy collection with a net.

Thanks Bill, I will be on the look out for eggs also. Here we have had tadpoles for weeks now. I probably have a few hundred thousand tadpoles already.
Thanks again

FYI - Moving amphibians and reptiles is generally illegal.

Tums:

In my pond, in previous years I've had 300' of shoreline solid black for 18" to 24" out from shore in toad tadpoles. Couple of weeks later they were down to at the most 10% of that area, and another week or so after that there were only a couple of 3'-4' patches of them that were maybe 6" wide. Both small LMB and BG had a field day with the tadpoles. I'll see maybe 20-30 toads all year long. No snake problem here either.

RAH (according to the local game official I talked with this morning) here we can not move them to natural rivers, creeks, streams, or public waters. Relocating on private property without direct access to any of those water previously stated is ok. The officer also said we can not transport for sale without proper paperwork and permits.

Esshup Part of my problem is a lack of predators this year (not only the snakes I removed) for the tadpoles and frogs. The LMB will not be moved into this pond until later this year. The juvi BG have so much natural forage (35K+ in minnows alone per surface acre) & also feed that I have not even seen them attempt to eat a tadpole. This is the 3AC BCP (500 just put in this month) pond and has just over 300 BG per acre at present.

In hind sight I made my situation with the tadpoles / frogs myself. It looks like it will just result in some work and expense on me and I have extra forage for the other ponds in the end.

whoaaa....as a kid me and buddies spent countless lazy summer days down at the creek catching frogs, giant tadpoles, ect...don't remember ever getting sick....did get some warts...not sure if that was related...thank God for that tape you can buy and stick on a wart to remove. I see lots of tiny frogs at my pond and always thought it was a good source of food for the fish.

Ya mean duct tape, right?

Tums, this might be a one year only problem for you, so I wouldn't get too worried about it.

Growing up in the city M-F and in the country the rest of the week, I think that the more that kids are protected from natures "nasties" the more susceptible they will be to other things later in life.

Just my thinking here, but better to have them exposed to low levels of stuff and build up a good immune system vs. keeping them away from as much as possible. Not saying to go the other direction mind ya.....

As an example, IIRC studies were done showing city kids had more allergies than kids from the country.

I'm not sure I'd trust a long armed dentist who waxes eloquent about bluegills, either.

Zep it does not really apply to all kids, it mainly effects little ones that have not built up a good immune system yet.

Esshup I think along those lines myself.