Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain New Pond Questions

This is my first post. Love this site with all it's excellent info. Already have used many ideas on new pond.

Pond location is Eastern Iowa, massive watershed area, max depth is 15ft, roughly 1.5 acres in size, 3 sides taper quickly, South end tapers slowly to 15 ft. Entire pond is surrounded by timber. some flooded timber in 4ft at south end.

Putting in pvc habitat in many forms in 4 to 10ft of water. Pond maybe spring fed from bottom. The guy digging it had to stop at 15ft due to ground getting wet. This was during last summers drought. A small slow moving creek runs into south end of pond.

GOALS FOR POND: In order

*Put in more pvc habitat
*Stock 10 gallons FHM and 100 BG now - let them reproduce before adding larger predator fish.
*Get electricity run to pond for aeration from bottom.
*In July of this year (2013) add more BG, Then 100 Blue Catfish 8-10 inches, and 100 LMB 8-10 inches. Possibly adding much higher numbers of all these fish.

QUESTIONS:

*Does this plan sound doable?
*Should I feed the fish?
*If I feed the fish, do I have to feed them forever or can they be weaned off later?
*How do I go about planting shallow water habitat plants like lilly pads and cattails for example.

MY NEWBIE THEORY:

*If I get enough BG to reproduce for the predator fish to eat it will balance the pond out?? I have read that BG can take over a pond. If this is the case and I get a good BG harvest these predator fish should take care of that??
*This is probably where I go off the range- If all works out I would like to add WE and SMB later. I'm adding as much habitat as I can for a good BG and FHM hatch.

Again I'm new, so any comment would be helpful. I don't want to make a move I regret.

Thanks
Ziessen

Being spring fed from the bottom can be a serious problem if the water table drops. Then the spring starts sucking water from the pond.

The guy who built it was amazed it filled up so quickly, then did not recede when the frost layer went out. The other pond he made receded. There is a ton of watershed to this pond so that should help. Again, this pond was dug during the heighth of the 2012 drought and he hit water?? I took the spring as being an asset.

100 blue catfish and 100 LMB seems a bit predator heavy to me. Where are you getting your blue catfish from?

What are the goals for the fishery of this pond?

Goal is to have excellent Blue catfish and LMB fishing. I would like to add SMB if possible in the future. Should I feed the fish externally and add the max amount of BG?

Also getting blue cat from an Osage Beach fishery.

SMB will not compete with LMB. If you want to add some you will need to stock adult fish periodically. I would add golden shiners as well as an alternate forage, especially since SMB struggle when it comes to feeding on BG.

I agree with Travis that your predator numbers are high. I would cut them in half.

Will do Rockville. I'll see if I can get some golden shiners. Do they reproduce in the pond? Thanks for the tip.

ziessen, there is a good thread in the archives on carrying capacity. Spend the time to read the thread, then do the calculations on how many pounds of fish will be in your pond a few years down the road.

It takes 10# of fish to put 1# of weight on one LMB.......

A pond can only hold so many pounds of fish........

Will do. I'm really hoping to grow large Blue Catfish in the pond. I will check archives.

Thanks

What is your definition of large?

To me, a large blue cat is anything over 40 pounds. A 1.5 acre pond could support maybe 2 or 3 that size. That would make for a very boring fishery to me.

Blue cats are for big ponds, really lakes... Except for very specific applications.

Golden shiners will reproduce in ponds as long as there is some grass for them to spawn in. http://www.andersonminnows.com/ is a great source for them. You could buy some brooders and let them spawn and/or buy a box of golden shiner fry and stock 250,000 fry.

Do you think I should just stock CC instead of blue cat?

What good does it do you if you don't spend it?!
I know you will understand! Inside joke to all of you. I'm the muscle on this pond gig he is talking about. He's the brains.

I think we need to look at the small mouth bass can go in the pond I have been told no because of needing current and their mouths are too small. Can anyone weigh in on this please?

Someone's feeding you a line and seeing if the bobber goes under.....

Don't let them tell you that SMB need cold water to live too. Arron M. raised some really nice ones in Phoenix.

SMB do fine in lakes here in Oklahoma.

So can SMB and LMB be in the same pond? Today we are getting 15 gallons of FHM and 100 BG to do a 2 week test to see how they do.
Also out pond is full and flowing slightly out the overflow tube, problem is we are slated to get 3-4 inches of rain in the next 24 hours and the creek that the pond is built on also has the main ditch line from both sides of road that dumps into creek. We have a wire cover over the tube ( 2 inch squares) to catch debris from going in the tube. With putting in fish today I'm concerned with them going right out the tube. I have some chicken wire to put over it but am concerned with it plugging and the water not able to get out and then having it go into the emergency runoff area and the fish going out it! Any quick ideas?

Largemouth will outcompete smallmouth in most pond settings. Unless advanced sized smallmouth are stocked regularly, which can be expensive, the largemouth will rule and you'll rarely see a smallie.

LMB outcompete SMB with respect to spawning. SMB and LMB of the same size (not yoy) do fine together. Over time as SMB die off from age/morts with no/little reproduction to adulthood the LMB will become predominate and SMB will disappear. If new SMB are stocked as advanced stockers you can maintain the fishery if you harvest LMB (no LMB crowding).

Precisely. Thanks for elaborating Eric.

Stocking advanced sized smallmouth will not be cheap either. You could always catch some and put them in the pond but you run the risk of introducing a parasite or disease. When your forage base is established there is no harm in stocking more SMB than LMB, this will give you a few years where you catch both before the LMB eventually dominate; by the time that happens there should still be some adult SMB for you to catch.

SMB have a smaller mouth so they cannot effectively control bluegill populations, a 4+" bluegill is too big to fit into the mouth of a SMB. Since bluegill spawn prolifically throughout the summer months and grow relatively quickly the SMB struggle to control the overpopulation of bluegill but the LMB will do a good job of keeping them under control. Golden shiners are more fusiform (easier to swallow) so they provide an excellent forage base for smallmouth. Golden shiners are readily available, you can even stock their fry from http://www.andersonminnows.com/foragefish.htm. Even if you do not end up stocking SMB you should add golden shiners as they will provide a nice alternative for your LMB.

I would add a bag of Golden shiner fry along with a bag of brooders when you stock your FHM and bluegill. Let your baby shiners grow for 2-3 months (or longer) before adding predators.

Also don't worry about your fish going down the tube. You may lose a few but plenty will remain and spawn like crazy. The overflow pipe on my pond feeds a large well for our cattle to drink from, there are hundreds of fatheads swimming around in there that must have been washed down. There are literally millions more fatheads that are still in the pond.

Rockville...have you purchased from Anderson's?

Do they arrive in pretty good condition as far as shipping?

Can you pour them (GS) directly into a pond upon arrival?

I see something called Black Salties on their website. Have you tried those?

I personally have not used Andersons as I bought my golden shiners before I heard about that site but others on here have used them with great results. Andersons sells to many other fish hatcheries and bait shops. I am not 100% sure if my golden shiners have pulled off a spawn yet as I have had trouble getting grass established and they need grass to spawn, I might order a bag of fry next year and stock it a few weeks before I stock my yellow perch and smallmouth (I have been establishing my forage base for a year now and will wait another year to add predators but I am using several non-traditional forage fish that take a little longer to get established).

My experience with ordering baitfish has been that you should always have them overnighted (you will lose a lot if you do 2-day shipping), then put the bag in the water as soon as possible. Let the sealed bag sit in the water for 20-30 minutes, then open it and pour a few cups of pond water in and wait 5 more minutes, then repeat. Once the fish are acclimated you tip the bag over and let them swim out. It you do not acclimate your fish properly you will have more mortality, I learned this the hard way.

Black salties are a different color goldfish. Do not put them in your pond.