Pond Boss Forums AERATION Should I aerate? Winter aeration

I did a quick search and this is what I came up whick directly fits my pond issues 1/4 acre 11 foot deep right now 2-3 foot low.

Quit aeration once surface temp is around 45.

Can move the diffuser to shallows around 2 foot deep to keep ice opened up. Not sure if I need to worry about it around here the winters have been mild lately.

I am aerating 24/7 right now and have been for the entire spring summer season.

The muck removing process is greatly slowed in low water temps. wont help in the winter

I could super cool my pond if I leave the diffuser in the deepest part of the pond.

I was going to leave it on all winter but after doing a search I am not certain now.

Like I said are winters have been pretty mild and I live just east of KC, what are you guys thoughts about it, everything is really clicking right now so I dont want to screw something up.

trialsguy, you are on target for your location, 45-50F water once saturated will hold 11-12 ppm DO, I prefer a winter option of being able to open the ice (only with snow cover)in a very shallow area.Clear ice (even 2 ft thick)will still allow enough light for a 02 production.Maintaining open water all winter in a small pond will have more negative factors than positive.In larger bodies especially with a history of DO problems small areas of open water are OK as warm pockets of deeper water will always exist.Last year in NW Ohio we had ice on/off six times throughout the winter and we never recorded any less that 90% DO saturation in any of the ponds we manage.We actually lost some November stocked redear due to Dec temps that got into single digits with high winds that super cooled small ponds that had no ice formation yet, So ice can be a great winter blanket to help keep that 39 F bottom water from getting any colder.Also keep in mind that when the night temps dip below the water temp that the surface water is getting pushed down and a natural mixing is taking place If you are aerating 24/7 now with the approach of winter cut back to night only and stop when suface is 40-50 and falling. I have shut mine down as is 34F this AM with 22 mph west winds and that is actually too much circulation but mother natures rules this time of year.I see more small ponds in the midwest being over circulated than under aerated as a little DO goes a long way in the winter.

That's a nice summary, TG and Ted, and timely as well.

Yes - but- Ted I have a question on this pond. I agree with the aeration advice. This pond is in the first year of a struggle with Duckweed. Sonar worked well on the first stage. The aeration has been IMO a big part of the clean up success. DW does not do so well in moving water. Duckweed survives the winter by producing buds (called turion) that sink to the bottom of the pond. Here is the part I know very little about in Northern ponds. DW turions ( seeds that sink to the bottom and float up when conditions are right) like the top layer being killed off are an extreme survival adaptation that makes it hard to control . Aeration helps control this by the constant moving of water. Is there any experience or info on the ability of DW turions to float up during winter under the ice while the water is still and start growing?

Should I be concerned that my water has maintained about3 foot visibility? I am concerned that I dont have any micro plants in the water to produce the oxygen that is needed.

I dont need to keep the pond clear of ice for any live stock so I shouldnt bother with moving the diffuser to shallows?

With 3 ft of transparency you have more than enough phytoplankton in the water column to maintain adequate DO unless the limit of visibility to the 3 ft depth is due to silt.

Whoa ewest I had completely let that issue slip my mind or maybe it was a mental block. When does the duck weed drop the turions? If it is towards the end of the season say when the water is getting cooler I may have killed it before this happend but if it is a survival type reaction as the plant is dying then yes I may have to deal with it next year which has been mentioned to me already as a high probability.

ewest,good question. I have not seen DW do this under the ice, Keep in mind it seems we have less and less ice all the time. Most Ohio ponds are full going into winter. Trees are defoliated which allows for more wind action, Drain tubes are usually horizontal vs bottom draw which allows for a vaccum effect under the ice when over flow takes place, Mine drain all winter. If DW did rise under the ice (I would suspect some does) it may be sucked out.Moving water (with aeration) on an ice covered pond would be greatly reduced as the flow out from the wave action would be stopped(restricted) by the ice. A lot of gallons would be turning (3000 GPM @ 12 ft with 1 cfm is common)but for the most part in an reduced area. This is where the super cooling comes into play. If wave action wanted and warmer bottom temps desired a diffuser should be suspended 3 ft below the surface so it would stay constant with any rise or fall of water level.but in a small pond of 1 acre of less and if our usual winter temps the bottom would still get too cold it would just take a lot longer. One could also add a riser to the diffuser base if not concerned about water level and keep diffusers at the 3 ft below the surface, Three ft seems to be the magic number to me as anything less does not have enough lift to create much water movement.My best approach on DW seems to be with Sonar AS and then maintain 10-15 ppb with the PR formulation all winter.This usually keeps us from doing a second AS spring application.Seems different types of DW germinate by long days/ short days warm water,cold water etc etc which has made DW very adaptable and a real survivor.If my main goal was DW control I would keep the water moving at the surface and monitor water temps in the bottom 4-5 ft and not allow the bottom to get less that 40-42F. I am not sure what seed longevity from a germination standpoint is with DW,especially since there are several types I would suspect many years. I know many small seeded broadleaf weeds seeds can lay dormant 10-15 yeras before the right conditions exist for germination. This would be a great topic for SePro to weigh in on, Ted

Wow thanks Ted !! A lot to digest there.

Trials does your pond lose water during winter (have much runoff/overflow) ? How much ice do you get and for how long ?

I would lean toward moving the aerator to shallow water less than 3 feet and at a place where it would encourage water to move toward the pond overflow. Maybe you can keep the shallow part moving and wash out any DW that may float up. Plus you can keep the pond open and watch for DW. You may want to turn the aerator setting (volume) down or even off to avoid deep water cooling if that starts.

I havent seen my pond over flow, but I have only had the place for a year and a half, it does look like it has had some heavy overflow in the past.But I dont think that it has in a long time.
I think that it may seep around the over flow at about a foot from the overflow pipe It maybe had a inch of ice last year off and on through the winter, it was a mild winter here last year.

I am having trouble locating a price for the sonar PR, Is it as costly as the AS? Is this Sonar PR sold in a granual or liquid? I havent located any on the net. If I could dose it in the winter for preventive measures I would do so because once my wm and dw get going it takes off very fast and I dont want it to get away from me next year. I am enjoying my clear pond way too much to let this happen.

I moved my airstone from the depths to about 3' of water today for the Winter (since I can't turn off the wind ). It was a good day, temp profile-wise, switch to Winter mode. Water temps were 45.0 deg F at the surface and 44.6 deg F at the bottom out in the middle; 45.4 deg F at the surface and at 3 feet at the dock.

My non-supercooled Redears and I thank Bill Cody, et al. for providing the info on when to switch.

was going to switch to winter mode but it is suppose to be in the 70's this week so maybe next week. I want to aerate as long as possible

I went ahead and moved my aerator to the shallow end a little closer to the overflow, I doubt that I will get a overflow situation but I can only hope that the pond gets that much rain. I couldnt get the magic number of 3 feet but I did get 27 inches from the surface down to the diffuser.

I started to just shut it down but I felt like a criminal doing so since I think it has greatly improved my pond, I know simple mind thinking simply, But we will see.
I am going to watch temps for the next few weeks, heck we got up to 70 degrees to day and 65 tomorrow, Gotta love the midwest!

Still havent found a resource for the Sonar PR, anybody know of a online source that I could check out

Sorry about waking up this thread, but have started so many new ones, thought this would be a better option.

I am still confused about winter aeration. Up here in the north country everyone says. "You'll have to aerate." Yet from what I gather from my readings here, that aeration is not a good idea if the temps are cold. Or is that only if done from deepest water? Let's be realist and say it is difficult enough in years with lots of snow to get all the snow removed, to have to always worry about your pond snow removal. (I want to retire where it's warm in the winter someday. LOL, will always comeback up here for summers though.)

Also, If one was to have a geothermal system in a house / garage. If you would pump heated 45 degree garage air out to your pond that would be ideal wouldn't it?

The main thing we worry about wrt Winter aeration is having enough oxygen for the fish under the ice. On the plus side, the fishes' BOD is lower in cold water and cold water will hold more oxygen to start with.

Bill Cody has posted some good figures; IIRC the Winter phytoplankton in a pond should be able to produce enough O2 for the fish if a minimum of 10% or so of the ice surface is kept free of snow to let sunlight through the ice. So if aeration were the only way to keep part of the pond snow-free, you would definitely want to aerate enough to keep a small part of the pond clear. Note that "according to Cody" (which is plenty good enough for me) it would be OK if the ice froze over the cleared space (if the resulting ice stayed clear of snow).

Clear "black" ice will transmit more light into the pond than slushy/dirty/refrozen ice. The lighter the ice appears to us, the more light is reflecting off of the ice and the less it is being transmitted into the pond.

(Bil, if I'm getting any of this wrong, please correct me.)

The secondary thing we worry about with Winter aeration is possibly stressing the fish by supercooling the pond water. In an iced-over pond, the warmest water will be on the bottom and will be about 39 deg F/4 deg C (water is it's densest at this temperature, and in the absence of mixing from wind or aeration, the densest water sinks to the bottom). If we aerate, for too long and in deep water, we can send this "warm" 39 deg F water up to the surface (where it cools) and eliminate the (relatively) warm refuge fish have at the bottom of the pond. So if you have to aerate in the Winter to maintain sufficient O2, it is better to do so sparingly, or in shallow water, or both.

I personally suspect the severity of the effects of supercooling are dependant on what species of fish are in the pond - I think warm-water loving species tending to come from the South (like RES) will be more bothered by supercooling than cool-water loving species from the North (like Walleye or Northern Pike). But even cool water fish may be better off with no stress from supercooling.

As far as heating the pond - I wouldn't bother sending heat from my garage to the pond IF my geothermal heat source was the pond.

Some Winter day when I get electric at my pond, I think I'll drop a 1500W floating tank heater onto the ice and see how big a hole thaws. This would be interesting to compare with the cost of the electricity to run it. I strongly suspect it's a really expensive way to keep a small hole open compared to the sparing use of aeration. Should be impossible to supercool with a heater, though.

One of my favorite topics since I struggle with this every year. Ever since I learned here on PB that even a small pond will survive winter as long as light can get through the ice I have been diligently trying to keep my ice clear. I still run an aerator in one section of my pond that runs for two 4 hours sessions a day. This is enough to just barely keep a small hole (6 inch) open when it gets real cold. Got a hole 30 feet diameter right now. I have notice that my fish however always spend the winter months on the un-aerated part of the pond. Perhaps because it is warmer there? So I try to keep that end of the pond free of snow. Well this winter has been mild and I had 6 inches of real clear ice. Great, but now I just got 8 inches of slushy snow on top of that. That tranlates into very opaque ice. I can't plow it, too slushy and too thin of ice. I'll be letting you all know if the fish survive come spring. I've got my fingers crossed.

bz, With a 30 ft opening your o2 level is fine.When the opening is only 6 inches when it is colder thats fine too as you should have an area around the hole that has opague ice. The additional ice cover provides great insulation against the cold winter temps. Two ft thick ice with air temps at 20 below zero still provides a water temp of 33F just under the ice and warmer as it gets deeper, Dont provide too much of an escape for those temps.Winter is always the tough season to get through for most fish regardless.Even slush is better than snow. Your "demand" for DO is very low and your "supply" is not as low as you may think.Theo and others are on target for your situation,Ill state it again that midwest and northern winter ponds are more likely to be over circulated (not good) than they are under aerated. Keep everyone posted as its bound to turn to winter up there someday.

Are we ever gonna have winter? We are at 55F today and no snow to amount of yet. I think you said you had the same too Ted, didn't you? I looked forward to the change of seasons when I moved here to the NC mountains from Orlando, where are those change of seasons?

At least the ponds we manage have not had to worry aobut icing over yet. Heck, we still have fountains in our client's ponds since they have not iced over yet.

Cary, its 50 F and raining now, we may get the patio furniture back out this weekend.The water temp is cold though as we changed out some diffusers here today and could hardly move my fingers by the end of the day.Sometimes I forget how little and slowly the air temp changes the water temp.Take care down there.

havea small body of h2o in the midwest(southern Iowa) use superior windmill to aeriate with
anxious to see how it does this winter any comments from the pro's

iwana- Welcome to the forum and PB! Ted with Cleanponds would be the best to answer your question. He has extensive experinces with the windmills and deicing. I'm sure he will chime in once he logs on.

Ted, finally some snow last night. Here is a photo of my ride home from the warehouse.

iowanagofishin you may want to check out Aquakler. It would be perfect to work with the mechanical aeration. It is a very slow release oxygen chemistry. It will slow release over months at the sediment level. Its release of oxygen is based on the need of the pond.

You can read more about it at www.aquakler.com

thanks for the info. i knew i could count on my pond boss buddies