Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Selecting a site Examine my land please :)

Fatih, in reagrds to good building soil, have you come across some past posts that talk about the "bucket test"? This might give you a way to do a test at each site you look at. It would take time for each test per site to know if it is better soil ( and it still may not gaurantee it good), but it could instantly let you know if the soil is terrible for a pond. And of course, the ground deeper can be totaly different than whats on the surface.

No matter what, I would still have a profesional give you advice on the soil once you find a "likely" spot.

Of course! You can fly right?

Guys, thanks for the answers .

There is 1 thing i don't get. We will place clay over the soil for the pond. I mean the water in the pond won't even be touching to the soil. So, i guess this is not why we need to get the soil tested.

I suppose that we need to get it tested to have an idea about watershed. Is that right?


And another question is, should i get the surface soil tested or some soil in deeper spots too?

Just need surface soil tested. It would be a good idea to test the clay too, lest you run into a situation like Bob Lusk ran into when they found the perfect clay to line a pond with....

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=313538

Yeah, getting the surface soil tested will give you some idea what the water will be like that is running into your pond.

This is just guess-work on my part: I think you are going to need property 2 to have a viable pond, and that location will likely require a well to draw water from to keep the pond with enough water to keep fish alive. The soil from a distance in both areas looks well-drained and dry, so runoff may be VERY rare except in extreme weather conditions. The simple bucket test is a must, and possibly some test holes to see what lies under the surface (site available clay is best)

Something else to consider in a high evaporation rate area is growing some wind blocks (trees) to lessen air flow over the water. Having the tree farms nearby will help, but having closer trees may help even more. The trick is keeping the trees far enough away they don't get their roots in and contribute to the water loss.

The open area in site #1 will probably have very high evaporation rates due to wind, and you may be hard pressed to grow wind-blocks.

I hope this helps your decision.

Ok guys. I see what you mean. We need soil datas for watershed. But my city is famous with its Pistachios and we have a very characteristic soil. I don't think you will like these soil conditions.

Habitat
Pistachio is a desert plant, and is highly tolerant of saline soil. It has been reported to grow well when irrigated with water having 3,000�4,000 ppm of soluble salts.Pistachio trees are fairly hardy in the right conditions, and can survive temperatures ranging between 10 �C (14 �F) in winter and 40 �C (104 �F) in summer. They need a sunny position and well-drained soil. Pistachio trees do poorly in conditions of high humidity, and are susceptible to root rot in winter if they get too much water and the soil is not sufficiently free-draining. Long, hot summers are required for proper ripening of the fruit.


Maybe i should give up trying to get water shed and focus on using well and creek water.

I wouldn't give up on watershed as every little bit helps. But, I'd wager that you will be using the well a lot.

Fatih I wouldnt give up on watershed just yet,while I am far from one of the forum experts I do have a bit of experience close to your region.My wife is from Bulgaria and we spend 6-8 months a year here.

I've fished quite a few times with my wife's uncle in Cyprus and the reservoirs there receive about the same rainfall(some 100mm more others 1-200mm less per year) as your region,although they are in the mountains for the most part they do well.

Also I have a friend who is from southern Bulgaria on the border with Turkey,we usually visit his village 2-3 times a year to go fishing.While we usually focus on the river there are a few man made ponds that even held water and fish this year,one of the driest on record without using a well.The ponds where built there because they couldnt use the land for farming.

As far as using clay to seal the pond,I know of one fish farm here in BG that used shotcrete(sprayed concrete)instead of clay as none was available to seal their ponds................granted they used EU funding for the project,but there are other ways to do things.

one last thought,if you don't already own the land,I will add every pond I have scene in BG is in a place that was less then ideal for farming..........To me it seems like they put ponds to raise fish where they cant easily farm if that make any sense.A lot of times land with little value for farming but might be viable for a pond is not listed for sale but might be available through some digging and at a good price.

Thanks esshup. I need every bit of water. So , i guess you are right.


Robert, thank you man. These are some very precious informations.I hope your establishments about rainfall and water shed are true.

I thought about using concrete. It looks like a very easy and effective way but the question is "what am i gonna place above the concrete layer?" . Because concrete will look very artificial and i think it won't give a real habitat for the fish. Maybe i should place my city's natural soil over concrete layer. Is that a good idea?

Your idea about non-farmable land makes sense but only the way to be close to a creek is being close to farming lands.

Fatih, over here, there are rubber concrete "stamps" that are used to make concrete look like stones. If you decide to go the concrete route, maybe the concrete that is showing above the water level could be stamped to make it look more aestetically pleasing. They also color the concrete here - they can color the concrete in the truck, that way the color is mixed thru the concrete, and they can throw colored powder on the wet surface of the concrete to color the thin top layer of concrete.

The downside to the powder is that if any concrete chips, the natural color shows.

http://www.concretenetwork.com/products-stamps-skins/

esshup, thanks as always . Everything you say sounds great but i will ask this again: Con a concrete surface provide a real healthy living place for fishes?

Concrete already provides water-proof. So we don't need the proofing qualities of clay any more. So why don't we just lay regular soil or some kind of gravel over concrete? Doing that won't damage anything but will provide a better place for fishes. What do you think?

Instead of stamping a design in the concrete, you could go the route of just spreading a coarse gravel/rock/boulder mix over the wet concrete. Press it in lightly to set it in place. This would give it the look of a river bottom. I don't think any soil would stay on the concrete if it has a slope to it. You might get some dirt to fill in between the rock that I describe above, but it will always want to settle to the bottom.

My question would be this. Can concrete really seal something waterproof? All concrete that I have seen eventually gets cracks. Cracks=leaks.

Fish n chips that's an interesting idea to place it on wet concrete but what i am trying to achieve is not only to have a natural look but also a natural place for my fishes. I still don't get any words about that from you .

I am an architect. What i know is, if the concrete gets wet and dried repeatedly, it will get cracks. But if it is always dry or always wet, it won't make any problems(There are lots of docks in the sea, supported by concrete columns. And between the concrete and soil layers, there should be a couple materials to make it water proof. I suppose concrete will work fine.

I don't think having to cover the concrete totally would be necessary. If you want fish to spawn in the pond, you could provide an area for them (at the proper depth and of the proper substrate) for them to spawn on.

Thats because I am a novice at all this myself. I have read from a memeber here about a film that grows on habitat and its good for the small fish to feed on. He says that the more surface area of artificial habitat there is, the better. So a rough and rocky bottom would be better than smooth, or so I would think. You could add a multitude of different habitat for the fish that is man-made. Trees, stumps, boulders, pipes,etc. The one thing that I would want to find out more on is plant life. It would be tough to grow anything if it was all concrete bottom. Or, as I am thinking about it now, may be you could place some basins around different areas in the pond and fill those with dirt to support some plantlife. Like esshup said, you wouldn't need the whole surface covered, just certain areas that are critical.





Thanks for that explanation. My ignorance on the subject is what makes me nervous...... Ha, kind of like you with Texas!!!!

This photos doesn't represent a typical pond by any means. It is actually a community/amenity lake. But, the thought of using concrete/gunite with embedded rocks certainly has merit if the budget allows (IMO). One could also envision forming several submerged depressions (bowls) in which to confine pea-gravel for spawning purposes.
Just remember that "structure" has a broad definition.

Guys to be honest , i cannot think of a lake without soil . I mixed all ideas together and here what it forms, what do you think?



http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/2376/55508526.jpg

I think you look really skinny and need to catch a bigger fish than that.

I'm on-board with your idea. Some of the shoreline should be at a shallower slope to allow spawning media to be place at the appropriate depths for the fish.

i pour concrete for a living and if you think it wont crack somewhere or even many times you are kidding yourself.

I heard that there are 2 kinds of concrete: Concrete that is cracked, and concrete that will crack.

With that said, to minimize the cracks make sure the ground underneath is compacted very well, use wire mesh or rebar in the center of the concrete, and also use the fibers in the concrete. The stiffer it is the better.

Guys , i am sorry. I was away for a couple of days. I guess we need to continue this discussion after i get my soil and land tested.

By the way, bottledgt, i am not an expert about concrete. What i told was just an information from a book from my school years. So , i might be wrong. I need to make a wider research about that.

TY

No rush, we'll be here!

just prewarning you . any concrete, especially a relatively thin large slab like this would be WILL crack. the ground will move over time. freezing/thawing. its gonna happen. and FYI, fibers do not keep it from cracking, neither do, rebar,wire,etc. it will hold it together, but not keep it from cracking

"Professionals" always say that concrete will crack, but it ain't so. If its mixed on the dry side, compacted well, and allowed to dry slow it can last many lifetimes without cracks, as long as the design and re-enforcement is done properly. My brother runs a concrete constuction company and also says that all concrete will crack. He is still waiting for my 22-year old projects to crack, including a bridge and a backyard pond. The bridge has had heavy equipment over it many times (including concrete trucks), but it has proper footings, was mixed on the dry side (in wheelbarrows, compacted well (with a 4x4), has plenty of rebar, and dried slowly under plastic.