Pond Boss Forums INTRO New Forum Member Introduction New member from Indiana

Hello everyone. Regular reader, first time poster. I've been lurking around the last few months (on a daily basis actually)learning a lot and loving the amount of great info that gets posted here. There is a great community of regulars here that make all this pond "stuff" informative yet entertaining!

So here is my story: Recently purchased a 5 acre tract and in the process of building our "forever" home. Finally escaped from neighbors on top of us/cookie cutter housing hell and moving out to the country where the kids will have room to run. Basement and garage are poured, framing to start 12/26 with a completion goal date in late March to early April.

At some point in 2013, probably second half of year. I will begin pond(s) construction. If I can wait that long! Got to get the house finished up first so I can keep the wife indoors working on her own projects and not asking too many questions (like how much is this gonna cost?!) Dont tell her I said that I've got a high clay content soil and it holds water probably too well. The construction site is a muddy nightmare right now! So I dont think pond construction will be an issue. I've done a test hole (lightly packed)and it held rainwater until it evaporated after 6 days time.I havent done the actual bucket test yet, but will get to that when I have the placement zeroed in for sure.

So my plans...I've got big plans..dreams..ideas..whatever you want to call them include a small swimming pond void of fish complete with beach area, rope swing, slide...etc. Swimming with fish freaks my wife out, so I told her I'd do that for her. LoL And then the larger body of water will be the Fishin Pond. I'm thinking 3/4 of an acre...maybe a full 1 acre if I can. I plan to aerate and probably feed. That seems to be a necessity for larger fish from what I've read...sure speeds it up anyway.

I've always been a bass person so my initial goal coming into all this was for a LMB pond (woohoo my first PB acronym!). However after learning more and more on here (and seeing Sprkplugs monsters)I'm teetering on going the big HBG route. I've had the opportunity to catch some big HBG in a managed pond and it is truly a blast, so I could probably go either way. It just seems for a smaller pond like I'm wanting to build it would be more conducive to creating a great bluegill pond rather than a LMB pond. Am I wrong in that thinking?

Anyway, it a pleasure to verbally meet all of you finally. Not sure what took me so long..but I look forward to picking all your brains as I plan and execute building my empire.

Attached is a rough interpretation of what I plan to do with the place. Subject to change of course

Welcome to PB DiamondD...Congratulations on the land/home/pond project, lots of exciting times ahead! Glad you took the plunge and joined the forum, many very knowledgeable folks here always ready to help.

I will refrain from offering up my opinion on the direction your future pond takes....but you probably already know what I would recommend!

Welcome, DiamondDave.

Glad you've joined! Can't wait to help in any way I can. Sent a quick PM.

Welcome from a fellow Hoosier. If you want bass, take a hard look at Smallmouth bass. Those and Hybrid Striped Bass. RES and HBG too. Ever think about YP in the mix?

Get the forage base started first, FHM and Golden Shiners.

Not saying that you shouldn't go with the HBG only, but personally I like diversity.

Thanks for the warm welcome guys!

esshup, I see you're up in N. Indiana. I was born and raised in Warsaw, not too far away. Loved living there in "county of 100+ lakes" and had a fishing pole in my hand more often than not since I was a wee tike.

I look forward to everyones advice, especially my fellow Hoosiers!

From lots of experience with ponds here is something to think about for your sweetie's swimming pond. Evidently she has never experienced a lot of swimming in several different types of ponds? When stocked correctly for swimming purpses with the correct species of fish (normally bass only), no swimmers get bit and few swimmers ever see a fish while swimming. These strictly swimming ponds do not produce very large fish.

However if you build a pond with no fish expect the pond to be invaded by many biting insects such as water boatmen, back swimmers, giant water bugs and water scorpion. These paticular types of bugs with their piercing biting mouth parts will often bite swimmers. Sometimes the bugs get inside the swimsuit and then bite - a real pain. Whirly gig beetles will develop hundreds if not thousands of individuals that live on the water surface and these "bugs" will bite but they usually avoid swimmers. Without fish predators these bugs can build dense populations up to 1 per cubic foot that are definately annoying to swimmers. Without predators crayfish will usually invade from neighboring streams or ponds. Crayfish when abundant will create muddy turbid water conditions in the pond. Some crayfish species when dense will build numerous mud chimneys that are annoying and unsightly in the grass around the pond edges.

Earth bottom ponds with a sand or pea gravel beach that is not used a lot will develop black septic smelly conditions below the surface sand-gravel. Swimming pond owners frequently compain to me that the swimmers and dogs stink when they get out of the pond when the beach sediments are black septic. Stir or rake the shallow sediments of a pond older than 4-6 years and you will see the black sediment condition when the sediments are disturbed. Dug ponds usually develop green water algae blooms or weed problems that are often treated with harsh chemicals. Be prepared for dealing with some if not most of these problems if you build a fishless swimming pond.

If your roommate prefers to not swim with fish it tells me she is "girly". My suggestion to keep your roommate the happiest, is build her some sort of pool- above or in-ground with liner or cement bottom. The pool will be work and involve some cost but so will a earth bottom pond if you try to maintain it as clear water and purely for her swimming pleasure.

I agree with Bill. Having a fishless pond dedicated to swimming creates its own set of unique challenges. My family utilizes the HBG BOW as a swimming pond, and I like to think that we have created a good marriage of the two...clean, clear water for swimming, with nice fish available also. We're very happy, BUT...HBG will bite. Hard. Were used to it, and it doesn't concern us, but if it's in any way a touchy situation convincing your wife to swim with the fishes, then she's probably not going to be happy with BG, hybrid or not.

I second the dedicated, stand alone pool.

Excellent point, Bill
I had not considered this, but it certainly makes sense.
She swims in lakes off the boat, so I dont think it will take too much convincing to just make the fish pond BIGGER!

I'll tell her there are nets keeping the biting fishies away or something muahahaha.

Thanks guys...input like this is why I'm here. Good stuff!

Welcome! My place is 30 miles west on Indy. We have BG, and they bite, but few of our swimmers care. Redear are an alternative with LMB, but you would still need a forage speceies with high reproduction, perhaps FHM + shiners. That is my plan as forage fish for my second pond (built this year), except it will have SMB, not LMB. I will also be adding blunt-nose minnows gathered locally. Our swimming area is a floating dock connected to a fixed dock (on our first pond). It has worked out great and avoids stiring up sediment. It also works great as a boat launch and with a natural-edge pond filled with emergent plants. we plan the same for our new pond.

I have / will consider about any fish combination at this point. I don't want to have allof one type for sure. It seems like a good balance is had with 3 or 4 species that can control each other.

I had thought about smallmouth, but not wanting to dig a really deep pond and the way the water gets into the 90's here for long periods in the summer I'm not sure they would do very well. I was thinking a 10' depth max with a 12' trench, but consulting with a true pond builder/designer on design limits of a 1 acre or less pond may reveal some other options.

Smallmouth are one of my faves though. I usually go to Canada in the fall and target them for most of the week. Pound for pound one of the most fun fish to catch imho. They hit like freight trains and always put on a show. I've caught some real beauties up there and lost the biggest one I've ever seen at boatside just last year (8+lb I estimate). Yep, the one that got away!

I had not given perch much consideration but when I think of perch I think weeds..which I dont want a lot of. Probably a misconception on my part, but I have seen the discussions recently on their postitives and can see how they would pair with SMB very well.

The small pond next to my property has some real nice RES in it. I've caught nice RES down at Kentucky Lake in the spring and they are fun to catch for sure. I was leaning on including some in my stocking plan when the time came.

HSB I've not given much consideration, because I just don't know much about them other than chasing them around N. Indiana lakes as they bust into feeding frenzys as they slaughter a pod of baitfish. Again with them I think larger, cooler bodies of water though. Or maybe the hybrids aren't as finicky as the regular stripers? Not sure how they would work in my pond, but open to suggestions.

That sounds like a real nice setup you have there RAH! I can't say that I've ever been bitten by a fish other than nibbles from minnows, but I haven't swam in a lot of ponds either. I can see how the increased concentration and their tendency to be more curious when not fearing lake full of predators could lead them to get a little too "friendly" lol. I'm not that worried about it honestly.

I have been thinking about a very small side pond just for FHM/shiner production. At the least, have some large tanks to keep a constant supply running.

Thanks for the tips!

Myth #1. SMB need deep cool water. SMB do not need deep ponds with cool water. We have disproved that may times here. I've raised them to 22" long in a 7 ft deep mud bottom, 0.3 ac pond.

Myth #2. SMB are the hardest fighting FW fish. Wrong. Catch a HSB 16"-20" long and it will fight harder and longer than any other same length fresh water fish.

Myth #3. YP need weedy ponds to grow well and big. Wrong. YP can be easily raised to 14" often 15" long in weed free ponds. The ponds do not have to be deep either. YP of 15" were raised in the 7ft deep SMB pond mentioned above.

There is lots of fish raising knowledge here; almost too much information to sift through. Ask questions and we can advise.

FYI: Link to Bill Cody�s 5 articles about growing smallmouth bass �
Part I. Links to each of the other 4 parts are at the end of each article.
http://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/growing-smallmouth.html
Note that several of us have found SMB do not "do" real well with BG, but smallies can function pretty well with RES or HBG.

Well I'm beginning to see that just about anything is possible in a well managed fishery. Having based all my previous assumptions on when/where I've caught things in the wild before I guess I can just throw that out the window and no make any more assumptions

Thanks for your input, Bill. You're right about it being a lot of information here to sift through. I've only scratched the surface and appreciate all your experienced insight!

It looks like I have some more reading to do!

Listen to Bill Cody. He knows his stuff. Aarom M. has raised some VERY large SMB in his backyard pond in Phoenix, Az. Many pond owners in Texas have HSB in their ponds. Cecil has grown 16" YP in his pond with hardly any weeds.

A managed pond is completely different than any lake, and some amazing things can be done with them.

I would consider digging the ponds deeper. Deeper ponds for the same surface area contain more water, and if they have a bottom aeration system in place, the more water volume holds more O2 reserves for periods of time when you have to dip into the "savings account". Plus, if the drought continues, more water is better. My pond was dug down to 22' deep. Right after it was completed and the equipment left, Hurricane Ike rolled thru and washed in a couple feet of sediment. I can live with 19' depth, but if it was only 10' deep, I would have to called back the equipment to dig it out again.

A client has 4 ponds that were dug 12' deep. With the drought, there is between 4' and 5' of water in them now. Even with an aeration system in each one, the possibility is there for the majority of fish to die during a winterkill this year. That will mean turning the clock back 3-4 years because it would be too cost prohibitive to stock the ponds with adult fish.

If I were to start fresh....I would stock HBG (of course), RES, HSB, and female yellow perch, provided I could find them. I'm satisfied right now, but you always wonder "what If?".

Come to think of it, the upper pond is sitting there neglected, full of stunted fish, begging for a makeover.....hmmm.

Tony, if you need someone to kill it, "have Rotenone, will travel".

Thanks Scott. It will definitely need rotenoned, but I have to figure out where I'm going to send the water that's in it now. It's above, and would drain into, my other ponds. And, it suffers from a watermeal or duckweed infestation that can be seen from space...I don't want that water in the other ponds. May need to get that under control first.

But when the time comes, you've got the job if you want it.

Okay, so while I see the necessity in deciding fish type goals for a pond early so you can incorporate and optimize cover/structure into the build, I think I'm getting a little ahead of the game. If I have the pond built summer/fall 2013, get it stocked with baitfish, I'm probably not looking at stocking with sportfish until spring 2014 at the earliest...hmm this makes me want to start digging sooner!

So on that note...is anyone familar with a recommended designer/builder in the central IN area? My neighbor knows a guy with an excavation company that has done some ponds, but I think he's mainly a "dirt guy". From what I"ve read on here in the past, those usually dont work out so well. I may do some more investigation into him if I cant find much else. An internet search didnt prove very fruitful on the subject other than this place which is about an hour away from me:

http://fishpro.biz/

It says they do consulting and their fish/supply prices look pretty reasonable. They don't appear to be builders though.

Any of you fellow Hoosiers have connections for me?
Thanks!

Try going to the local county Soil & Water Office to see if they have a list of pond builder in your area. They are not allowed to tell you who they think are best butr at least you will have a list. How far is Dave Stefton "Mongo" in southern IL from you? Anyone know the town where Dave lives?

This guy (see link below) fixed some problems (as best they could be fixed within my budget) that the first two dirt guys created. He did not dig the pond, but I will use him for my next one. He seems to understand what is needed to build a good pond, and he did what he said that he would do for the price that he quoted. He is also rated highly by BBB.

http://www.wharffexcavating.com/

Depending on where in S. Illinois, probably at least a 3 or 4 hour drive.

Thanks, RAH. Brownsburg wouldn't be bad drive for them at all. I'll add it to the list to look into!

Even if you have to pay more up front to have the pond done right, it will be $$$ VERY well spent. If the pond is done wrong, you'll most likely spend that whole dollar amount or very close to it to get it redone right. I was hoping RAH would chime in.

Sprkplug, drain some of the water out and just dump it into the woods so it won't find it's way into another pond. You don't have to drain all of it, even 25%-50% would help. You know what to use chemical wise, you used it in another pond already. In the Spring, a month or so after ice out would be good. In 4 weeks or less the Rotenone will degrade enough so it's not toxic to fish.