Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Fish ID help

These are about 3/4" long, and became present about two weeks ago. I caught some then, but they were to small to even try to identify. I thought maybe my FHM had spawned, but I had my doubts at that time. Now I know for certain that they are not FHM, but what is the verdict?
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What type of fish do you have in the pond? Look like Lepomis (sunfish) of some sort.

I have stocked FHM and crayfish. I put 50 2" FHM in mid August, looked thru them one at a time. I even pitched a few of those, because they looked questionable. But now that I see what these look like at a small size, there was definately none with the FHM. The crayfish I stocked today.

I have a small spring that feeds the pond. It was diverted during renovation. So it is possible that these were in that area. The pond area was almost totaly dry, but there is that possibility too. What could have been in those areas is anybodys guess. Looks like my stocking plans/schedule is going to have to change......

They don't look like the GSF that are in my creek, which is no way connected or near this pond. These in the photo/pond have definate bands of vertical color. Are they too small to tell if they are GSF?

Can you show a pic of one with it's mouth open?

Look like BG to me

*DISCLAIMER* I am not a proffesional fish ID'r just a amateur pondmiester..

I will have to try and catch some more tomorrow and get a mouth open. Here is a better picture showing the definition of the mouth, but it's not open.

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I suppose if it's BG then it's better than GSF...... but it will create havoc in getting a FHM population going won't it? I'll have to bump my whole stocking plan up by a year..... I know, welcome to pond management, right....

Yes, BG in a pond WILL prey on FHM. I was at a pond today and the FHM that were stocked were being chased around by the BG in the pond in less than 15 minutes. The BG better watch out next year, as 50 fingerling LMB were stocked today too....





I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not liking the size of the mouth that I think I am seeing on the sunfish in your hand..............

Has JHAP visited your pond???

Yea, I'm really scratching my head on this one. If it's BG then I have to deal with them tainting the genetics of the new ones I will be putting in. If it's GSF, then they will compete for the food sources with stocking anything new. Either one makes it a not-so-ideal situation. I was planning on letting my pond "brew" for a whole year, building up the forage base. Now, I feel I have to act quickly with a stocking plan to quell this uprising.

I don't want to consider a kill off. Mainly beacuase of cost, but I also would find it hard to do personally. Any ballpark ideas of cost for a 1.25 acre pond 10' deep? I imagine it would have to be handled by professionals.

Thanks for the help so far, ..........Jim

Start trapping and remove all you can, perhaps you can slow them down some.

Try fishing with a small hook No12 and a piece of worm 14"-2ft under a bobber in the beach-shallow area to see if you can catch an adult; there are at least 2 adults. Sit and have a beer or soda for an hour or so and relax while you wait. Sitting down while angling often produces better results. Sometimes it doesn't hurt so make a little splashing sound to attract curious fish, then they may see the worm offering and bite.

Bill, if they are GSF, I've seen them full of eggs at 2 1/2" in length.

A person needs to have an applicators license to purchase Rotenone. It would be better if the pond were to be pumped down, reducing the ac/ft of water that has to be treated.

1 gallon treats 3 to 6 ac/ft of water, I drained down a pond and treated it twice to ensure that no GSF survived.

https://srac.tamu.edu/index.cfm/event/getFactSheet/whichfactsheet/219/

In the pond that was just killed, the GSF in the pond really limited the RES and YP recruitment.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=306135#Post306135

Well here are some pics of the mouth. Not an easy photo-op for something that is 3/4" long. Have you ever tried to get a fish to smile? As I'm taking these photos, I'm thinking this is probably an initiation gag, seeing how far I will go Next thing will be asking me to count the eyelashes

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I will certainly try this next week. If I could catch them, it would be easier to identify what they are....It don't change the fact that there are now lots of them It would set back more hatches, leveling the playing field a bit.

Those better close up pictures help with identification. Sunfish that small are a challenge to ID especially if you can't examine the specific features closely. Features for speciation of sunfish that small have been published but one needs to actually have the fish in hand for specific counts and measurements which is why I suggested you try to catch one of the rare adults. From what I see I dont think they are GSF. Although my reference for young GSF does show them with vertical body stripes/bars which your unknown fish have. It is still hard to see the back edge of the mouth mandble. My guess is Probably BG, RES or pumpkinseed? But I can easily be wrong by using pictures. Was the pond filled with water from the creek/ditch? Fish fry up to 2" long can easily be pumped alive through a trash pump.

If you can catch another one put it in a clear glass jar and take pics - that will help.

BG




AP's PS

I caught a couple 2" GSF today and examined their mouth and body closely. The back end of the mandible maxillary is very hard to see with the mouth closed. Now I think they could very well be small GSF. You will have to get a few larger ones to verify the name.

Bill, I'm leaning towards GSF because of the mouth gape, body shape and coloring, although I know the last 2 aren't quantitive methods of I.D.

Me too on leaning GSF. Mouth size and color/banding pattern.

I don't think those are GSF. They seem more BG like, but they're dead and quite small, making ID a challenge. So I will say, I am not quite sure so I don't have to explain my methods of making small sunfish ID's.

Travis,

Look at the mouths. They seem just a little too big for bluegills to me.

Yeah, the mouths do seem to big for BG, but I don't think they are GSF either. I have seen a lot of dinky GSF over the years and those don't look like them. Maybe HBG?

Thanks to everyone for their insight and help with this. I am definately going to keep catching some of the little ones, as they grow bigger, to eventually get a good/solid ID of what they might be. I am also going to try to catch those parents which would be the best ID.

But whatever they are, I need to decide on a course of action and am curious on some thoughts of everyone. At this time, a total killoff is not the route I want to go. It may be the best, but when I started the pond renovation my "perfect pond" idea was to be O.K. with "imperfections". I don't want something to where I have to obsess over it just being right. It has already exceeded my expectations, and nature has just thrown me a curve ball, and I will take the challenge. I enjoy that part of the process just as much as anything else. If it is a failure by "my standards" after I give it a try, then in 5 years I may consider redoing it all again and be that much wiser from the experience.

What would be everyones idea of WHEN should I stock? Is it right now to get stockers competing with whats in there now? Should I wait for other reasons, like bad time of year or the need to build a forage base?

Thank you, Jim

You may not need to stock BG if there are BG in now.

What is your goal. If its LMB/BG then you could stock a few 2-4 inch LMB now.