Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Pond Boss Man jailed for collecting rainwater in Oregon

Gary called me and we talked about his dilemma for about an hour just a few days before he started his sentence. I've spoken with him several times. It's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard of. A horrid case of bureaucratic incompetence and bullying and misguided decisions. But...it's Oregon. Probably the most restrictive state in the union. They should be embarrassed and ashamed.

Be nice if someone could bring more publicity to this. It's wrong.

But they are not!

Give Gary our best wishes

Wow... Sometimes because of reasons out of your control you have to live in a certain state. If I didn't have a specific very important reason, I'd be living in a state that is a little more friendly to individual rights.

I'm still in shock over a landowners inability to legally control his own rain water. If he had damned up a flowing spring, that might be different, but this case seems pretty clear.

I guess dropped pine cones are owned by Oregon too.

Wow, I have heard Colorado has the same laws. Once it hits the ground it doesnt belong to you.

So you cant have a pond in Oregon?

I believe NC has the same laws Mike. The water belongs to them! This thing in Oregan sounds like a local gov't bully trying to throw his weight around. It needs more publicity.

He had permits granted, but from reading the article they were rescinded... You can have ponds in Ore., but they must be permitted. Sounds like the gov't offcials were getting a power high in rescinding the permits.

I thought I'd inject this for a little humor in a humorless situation. This is in no way poking fun at Gary's predicament! I took artistic liberty with the name and location of the officer.

An Oregon Water Resources officer stopped at our property yesterday "I need to inspect your property for water usage."

I said "Okay , but don't go in that field over there.....",

The officer verbally exploded saying, " Mister, I have the authority of the state government of Oregon with me!" Reaching into his rear pants pocket, the arrogant officer removed his badge and shoved it in my face. "See this #%@ing badge?! This badge means I am allowed to go wherever I wish.... On any land !! No questions asked or answers given!! Have I made myself clear?.... do you understand?!!"

I nodded politely, apologized, and went about my chores. A short time later, I heard loud screams, looked up, and saw the officer running for his life, being chased by my big old mean bull...... With every step the bull was gaining ground on the officer, and it seemed likely that he'd sure enough get gored before he reached safety. The officer was clearly terrified.

I threw down my tools, ran to the fence and yelled at the top of my lungs.....

"Your badge, show him your #%@ing BADGE!!"

That is good Cecil.

Those type actions by gov often lead to problems (choose your type).

Eric is this usually a useless fight?

I'm not Eric, but I've seen people win these type of fights with the government but you have to have the perseverance and endurance of a badger and a cash flow to match it to pay your attorney.

Here's a true story that will make the hair stand up on the back of your neck and show you how powerful the government can be and how it can step out of it's bounds just like with Gary. I may be repeating this but if so it's worth repeating.

A friend who is fish farmer in Michigan got a call from a guy he knew back in the Army and he wanted to know if he was interested in investing in something that would produce a good return. It was some type of synthetic motor oil that was supposed to be revolutionary blah blah blah. The friend invested $800.00.

Turns out it was a scam and my friend got a call and had to answer some questions regarding his role in the scam by an local attorney in Grand Rapids, MI that was handling it for the feds. He was assured he had nothing to worry about and my friend left it at that. After all he was out money too and was not a party in the scam.

However he later got a letter in the mail from the same firm that the feds were using indicating that he was implicated in the scam and owed the government money or he could face jail time.

He once again contacted the firm and they told him if he came up with $8000.00 he would be off the hook. He paid the money and thought it was no longer a problem.

Next thing he knows he is in deep doo doo; they are threatening to take his business, home, vehicles -- everything. He finally contacts an attorney he went to high school with (herintoo he thought he didn't need to due to the reassurances of the firm), and the attorney scolds him as to why he didn't contact him sooner. Anyway he was able to keep his possessions by filing bankruptcy just a couple of hours before the feds were to show up and confiscate everything.

Things finally got rectified, but my friend is not satisfied as he did make a payment for no wrong doing, and wanted his money back, or he was gong to file some kind of paperwork -- that would have assured the firm would not get paid by the feds. (His lawyer had suggested it and it had something to do with if there were any loose ends not tied up they would not get paid.) Of course the friend considered not getting his $8000.00 back a loose end!

One of the firm's lawyer's agreed to meet him at a Big Boy restaurant of all places, and said he would have a check ready for him if he signed off that they had no more unfinished business. When it came time to hand over the check the lawyer wouldn't let go of it! My friend pulled it out of his hand and made a statement something to the effect of, "You do know you and your firm cam close to being blown away right?" The attorney's eyes widened. "Yeah," he said, "I had a pistol ready to go, I had a nice suit that I would get into your law firm with, and I was going to blow all you sleasy MF'ers away. You see you almost took everything I worked all my life for and I would have had nothing left. My wife was also on the verge of a nervous break down.

My friend related this to me a few years ago after the guy in Texas flew his airplane into the IRS building. His point was there is a point where a man can be pushed and he can do a desperate things. Of course we don't know what happened with that guy but it makes you wonder.

Hello, all. I joined awhile ago and have been lurking ever since.

I'm in a ridiculous predicament myself at the moment. I used to live in Arizona, and when I moved back to Pennsylvania with my wife we tried to sell our house there. When we got zero bites on it, we decided to rent it out to cover the mortgage. About six months ago our renter moved out and we put it on the market. In June we got a short sale offer on the home, so we submitted it to Wells Fargo. We just heard last week that the short sale was DENIED because we rented the property out for more than 18 months! That is a rule placed on FHA loans, which was established to prevent people from acquiring FHA loans for the sake of buying rental properties. Ours was purchased as a primary residence, then converted to a rental out of necessity/circumstance. The bank has told me my only option is to continue paying (not possible) or foreclose. I was on the phone almost all day every day last week (may have pissed off my boss a bit) and have at least gotten HUD to open an investigation into the matter. Absolutely ridiculous! The buyer comes with a preapproved loan and is willing to pay fair market value, and the bank doesn't take the offer because they can't use common sense to see it benefits all parties involved.

Sounds like the bank may have an ulterior motive here. They got money from you and they get the house if you foreclose. Win/win for them. Sad but true.

I've got an abandoned house two doors down from me with 6 foot weeds all around it. It's a terrible eyesore for the neighborhood.The house is slowly falling apart with no one living in it to take care of it. I think it's been broken into also. The bank repossessed it after the owner went bankrupt. The bank kicked the renter out that was paying a monthly rent payment AND keeping up the house and yard. I'm scratching my head trying to figure out why they kicked the renter out (I know him so I do have my facts right). The only think I can think of is the bank somehow is getting restitution or a write off vs. keeping the renter in.

Cecil, is that the one across the street and to the North?

Cecil, since receiving the verdict from the bank I've done A LOT of research about this. There have been many people with similar cases to mine who have had no problems getting their short sale approved and closed. The trend seems that the others were lucky enough NOT to do business with Wells Fargo. Before this issue I had no issues with them, but ever since I've gotten fake phone numbers from them, false information, and have had people assigned to my case refuse to call me back/reply to emails.

Through one HUD expert that I talked to, I was told that the bank is choosing this route because they can collect insurance money from FHA for each missed mortgage payment. When they decide to finally foreclose, the loss is repaid to them by HUD, so out of all the parties involved, only Wells Fargo gains from this decision. Conveniently enough, Wells Fargo is the one that makes the decision. Every other person/entity gets hurt by this decision, including myself, the buyer, FHA, and HUD. I'm currently looking into the Fair Business Act to see if anything applies. I'm not backing waving the white flag yet.

It's to the north but not across the street. It's two houses down to the north on the same side of the highway. Coincidentally someone came and cut the grass but it's still an eyesore.

It's also not supposed to be there in the first place as it doesn't have the pitch of roof that is required under the local land parcel agreement (to keep out trailers and low grade modulars.) I suppose my neighbors and I could get rid of it on those grounds but I really don't want to make myself a target.

I'm sorry to hear that. I figured it was probably something like that. Didn't Wells Fargo get into a lot of trouble recently regarding bad mortgage practices?

Oh yeah here you go:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/20/wells-fargo-settlement-mortgage-abuse_n_905054.html

If you do a google search you will find they have had several run ins with the feds in many different ways.

Please keep us posted and i wish you the best of luck!

Update: Thursday I received a call from our contact at HUD. Surprise, everything should be okay now! This guy was a tremendous help to me as well as a wealth of information on the entire process; a huge asset to HUD. I can't thank him enough.

Back to Wells Fargo...I called them on Friday to make sure everything was moving forward. It wasn't. Wells Fargo said my case was closed because documents hadn't been received in time. The documents in question were what they needed from HUD but never asked for! Yesterday (Tuesday, since Monday was a holiday) I called again to make sure everything was moving forward. It wasn't. Now they're saying their review process uses a different submission style. Originally you upload all documents to a website, but now we have to fax them?? Anyway, that was taken care of yesterday. I can't wait to see what today has in store for me!

Good luck Bob and keep us posted. I hope you get this cleared up!

What a nightmare! Good luck Bob and keep us posted. I hope you get this cleared up quickly!