Thanks to all of you for the information. My PC I built I built a few years ago decided to lock up on me multiple times since my last post so I have not been as attentive. Additionally, I took my wife and the Polaris Ranger to the ponds yesterday to get pics and video for all of you ( I will try to post the videos to Photobucket, more on that latter ) and managed to hurt my back more so than normal, so I am down for a bit.
I believe all of you when you say that I may not be seeing what is really going on. I have never owned a pond, these last 7 years is the sum of my experience. As soon as I got here and acquired the pond and built the second one, I subscribed to PB and followed the forums as best I could, and that is the extent of my knowledge. While extremely helpful, and of course years of observations of the fish behavior and such is very valuable, it is no substitute for experience and especially if I would have had other pond owners to help with any advice. Clearly I am lost, and as I pour over the back issues of PB and the posts in these forums, I am able to draw a few conclusions, especially based on the comments so far.
First, I want to make one thing clear, I feel I did not do a very good job on the timeline with regards to feeders, colors, etc. In 2005 the old pond was pretty clear. I had the larger pond dug right next to it in August of that year, ( I still have not had time to read how to post these pics I took yesterday, I will do that right after this ) and it SHOULD have taken months to fill it, so it was completely empty and bare as a bone. In fact, I was going to go down inside to establish some cover, etc as I had read.
However, one of the two spots that the tractor operator came as close as he dared to the old pond, with the idea of latter, when I was ready, we would use a backhoe to break down the 18" walls separating the two ponds caved in about 2 hours after he left. I looked outside and was shocked to see the new pond was already a third filled! One of the walls, a kind of dam so to speak, had partially collapsed, the top two foot of it had given away, and in a matter of a few minutes, the new pond had water everywhere! On a side note here, the folks that built the pond came back out several times the next year over the leak issue, they are convinced that because the pond was not able to fill slowly ( this was the first time in 35 years of building ponds they ever had a pond fill in a matter of a few minutes ) normally by rainfall or even by my well, the sudden rush of that much water before the newly dug material even had a chance to settle was the culprit behind the leak. Anyway, we got to the smaller pond fearing that all the water had drained and the fish would all have croaked, but there was enough water left for them to survive while I immediately began the filling process from the well. After some time ( I cannot remember how long ) both ponds were full and very nice. Not crystal clear by any means, but probably at least 40" or more. We did not feed at that time. I did a small stocking of some HBG CC, RES and LMB twice in the first 18 months, along with 4000 FHM. The ponds stayed the same color, fishing was great, all was fine. Then I came along to take care of that.....
Deciding that it was TO clear, the fertilizer I added ( I now know ) was of the concentrated type that should have been dispersed in small amounts, not by nearly 20 pounds or more of the stuff. So, 18 months into a great system, within 3 days I had a pond as dark and green as a dollar bill, and it has remained that way since. Now here is the thing. We did not begin feeding for over 3 more years, so it does not SEEM to me at least ( but it is clear I have no idea what I am doing, so you kind folks that are setting me straight is of more help than you can imagine ) that the feeders are the culprit because that green color never went away. Each winter it would get better to the point I could see 24" or so ( from the current 6-8 ) but spring and hot sunny days quickly changes it back to the same old deep green.
If it were the feeders, I can't understand the years of the green water prior to their introduction. I THOUGHT perhaps the water was maybe mostly muddy ( I have a clay pond, great clay in fact, and I know the large CC can't be helping it any ) but when I gather it in big clear jugs, the suspended particles that take nearly a week to settle look exactly like the green algae I have suspected from the beginning, I do not see much mud, etc in the water, other than the algae, it looks good.
I am gonna do everything all of you have suggested, all of them sound like excellent ideas. I need to get my water tested ASAP ( and I am so glad it was suggested to have the well water tested also, I would have never thought of that, it is so crystal clear ) I have been wanting to do that for a long time, it is surprising how difficult it has actually been for me to find a place I can use, I keep following links but run into dead ends, etc. But I have been given help here.
As for the big CC, it will be next to impossible for me to do it, I physically can't be there long enough....that and well, uh, er, um..well, I will just blurt it out...FOUR of them are at least as smart as me, more so I suspect. They are so smart I feel like I should start a college fund for them or something. I agree, they need to go, no one has been able to do it, and they try. I was unaware of the traps, I will look into that. I knew the GC were next to worthless as soon as they got big, they are also next to impossible to catch, they are extremely spooky, a slight shadow and they go deep and don't come up for hours. Can't even get an arrow into one.
About the plants. I know most feel that there must be some in the ponds. All I can say to that is that I am still inclined to say they are mostly plant free, or reasonably so, and never did appear to have any, certainly not enough to draw our attention to it, and we were actually looking for some plants, I intended on taking some pictures and trying to identify them. I know there were none in the new pond, and while one would think the old, established pond would have plants, strangely, I have had people, including myself when I was better, walk every inch of the pond trying to map it out, looking for the logs, etc, and we never ran into a single weed even. All the people that have fished both ponds, including me, that have been hung up on the bottom, etc, has never had a single piece of plant life on their hooks, lures, etc. That was BEFORE the first GC were put in ( mapping the old pond ) and additionally, since it was so easy to see most of the pond, we could easily see to the bottom of the old pond in all but the deepest places, all barren of plant life. I may be completely wrong, ( well.... we can safely assume that is a safe bet
) and perhaps what plants have tried to make a stand since then were quickly gobbled up by the GC.
I feel like I also need to say something that I should have done much earlier. I am not really trying to get this pond into any great fishing status for a couple of reasons. I would like to grow some large BG, hence the feeders with Aquamax 500 and 600, but frankly, without any help or attention from me, I already had big BG in the pond, ( but no idea about the numbers, probably much lower than I think ) against all odds. They are getting BIGGER I have noticed, so I think the addition of the Aquamax is doing what it is intended for. But I only want to do that because we feel so badly for our 86 year old neighbor who is caring for his 82 year long time friend who barely knows who he is anymore. His only delight left in life is when he comes down and catches big BG. For that reason alone we are willing to spend thousandths to make his last years just a little bit better. My wife and I are of the type that just do not feel well at all unless we are helping someone less fortunate than us, and he sure qualifies!
But for us, frankly, the fish are pets. When I do fish, I release everything! We just want a healthy, good looking pond, with some of everything, turtles included ,and maybe a lot of big BG. Bass? I guess that would be nice, the the truth is I have NEVER been able to catch them, I caught ONE in 7 years, that is why I brought in the pro, thinking there must not be any in the pond, however, they were there....and they were hungry! I STINK at it. I watch TV shows all the time on it, buy the right equipment, even fished along side the pro and duplicated him, I just don't seem to have the touch. I am at a loss on how I will ever be able to cull or balance the bass population ( or the slightest idea for that matter what the population of the bass, or any of the fish is , probably MUCH lower density than I thought ) since there appears to only be one guy in my zip code that has figured out how to catch them!
I know bass fishing can be considerably more difficult than much of the other fish in the pond....except maybe that huge albino ( Moby ) that has eluded us for years, I know he is smarter than a 5TH grader! We already SEEM have enough large BG that it is no problem to catch them, sometimes one per cast, and I have no idea how we pull that off considering how little I know about what I am doing. As I said before, with the exception of the poor bass, the rest of the population seems to thrive in this rich, green water.
These ponds, for the most part, despite my best intentions, have been on their own. Over the last seven years, my TOTAL stocking only consisted of perhaps 40 albino CC, 100 normal CC, 50 RES, 8 GC several hundred LMB and same for BG. There were no additional stocking for five years, this spring, for some reason I added 100 CC that were 6" with the intentions of removing the larger fish and replacing them with these, then realizing the folly of my decision. MEDS make me do really stupid thing, I really was not this much of an idiot prior to my snooze fest, I promise
In addition, I also added 100 HYB, which I now see may have been a mistake also.
The RES is an excellent example of what I am trying to convey about how little I have been able to contribute to the health of this pond, and yet something is still working in my favor. They are not a fish that is normally available, only a "special" on rare occasion, and in the very first small stocking, I put in 50 of them, as well as a number of albino CC, which was also a special. The albinos grew quickly, occasionally we would go out in the evening and hand toss in some catfish food, and even in green water they were easy to spot and keep track of. As the years went by, they all got in the perhaps 8+ pound size, but when we installed the two feeders last year and got a real good look at the fish in numbers that were feeding, we were quite surprised to see perhaps 15 or more smaller albinos, of TWO distinct size classes, some were only 6" or so, some were in the 2-3 pound class. They looked to my uneducated mind to be of two separate spawns, maybe a year or so apart. More of a surprise to us is the RES. I had told people that if they ever caught one, to toss it back. But with only 50, and they were quite small, I thought perhaps they all took up residence in the belly of Moby or Darth Vader, maybe even a bass, because I never had anyone report that they had caught one in 7 years. I was never able to find them again on fish day, so there was never any additional stocking, that original 50 seven years ago is it. However, a few months ago we had a large family that used to be our neighbors bring their children over to fish ( ex Amish, the entire family really knew how to fish, so great to watch even 5 year old girls bait and unhook their own fish, even cast! ) and I stayed out with them the entire morning. I was caught totally of guard when one of the kids found a pocket of BG, all sizes, of which at least 10 were RES, and those fish were small, clearly young fish. Those were the first confirmed sighting of a RES in seven years, I assumed they were long gone, I had all but forgotten about them. Yet this child hauled in one after another, I unhooked each one carefully, they were indeed a different fish each time, all young fish, most definitely red ears, and I finally told him stop fishing in that part of the pond, I needed time to think about this. I am still a little surprised that of those 50 little red ears seven years ago, enough managed to make it to where they are actually reproducing.
The thing is, I don't think I have properly emphasized how seldom this pond is fished. Maybe twice a year during some years. At least one year it was not touched. The pond is basically self maintaining. Most of the fish we have, with the single exception of the grass carp, are all spawns that continue to keep the pond with enough of everything to make it a pretty good fishing pond actually. Well, that good fishing rule is out and you need to be a genius assuming you wanna go after Moby or Darth Vader
If I feel up to it, I will go out, but I release everything. There has been entire summers with no takers. People get upset when they catch a lot of big BG but see large cats ( especially the albinos that really gets them excited ) but cannot catch them, even the people that are VERY good at catching catfish normally. They think the CC are immune to any known tactics and get discouraged, don't want to come back. And, because I do not normally stock ( it is not a money issue, it is a physical issue, every time I do it I am in bed for the next 3 days, unable to move ) I ask them to throw back the really large BG and limit the number they take home. None of the people that do come out to fish rarely are any good at bass either, and try as they may, they get skunked as I do, insisting the pond has no bass, even as they watch maybe a dozen or more bass spawns 4-6 inches long all along the bank where they fish. Were it not for the one guy in our part of MO
that apparently knows how to fish for bass, I would sign a document in court swearing we had no bass over 6"!!
By the way, the two feeders are Moultrie directional feeders, hold 100#, have solar chargers, excellent products. They shoot the feed in an area over the deep end of both ponds, as soon as I figure out how to attach the pics I took you can see them and where they are aimed. Might also explain why the fish always like to stay in these areas of the ponds and seem to pretty much ignore most of the rest.
We bought this farm, with the 43 acres and the one small pond, and most of the acreage being hardwoods, thinking that I might still be able to hunt and fish once again. I spent 45 years hunting very hard in the high Sierra mountains of CA at up to 10,000' walking nearly straight up and down, all of it was very difficult, but very rewarding. I knew before I ever recovered from that 13 hour surgery I would never be walking up ANY hill again, much less a ten thousand foot mountain. Buying a farm in very flat ground, covered with woods, something very different than the country I had spent my life in, was my only shot. When we got here, I had the pain under better control since the pain pump was working, and we cleared the 7 acres behind the house, put in food crops, had the new pond dug, put up tree stands ( something completely foreign to me ) and within a year were able to attract many deer and turkey right into our backyard. But two things happened that ended my dreams of being able to resume my hunting status. My pain levels kicked in to high gear when the pump decided to take a shot at killing me....and, after watching the deer and turkey all day, every day from our backdoor and bedroom window with binoculars and 45X spotting scope, we made the mistake of naming some of them
I know all of you encourage me to post as long as I need to, but I really feel the need to apologize for the length of this, and I know in my attempts to try and give all of you as much information as possible I sometimes become more of a "carpet bomber" rather than stick to the points. If it helps explain any, the reason behind most of that is I am alone out here in the woods, just my wife, and she is gone often. Very alone. I only leave the property line some years only 4 times, each quarter I have to travel 2 hours to Springfield MO to the Dr for more tests, make sure the rods have not shifted, make sure the massive amounts of opiates are not destroying my liver, etc. So I have extremely limited exposure to any other people, and I am a very sociable type guy, so the last 7 years have been tough in that regard. Nearly all the Amish friends move out of state. I have not had another person to talk to about the pond for help, there are very limited resources locally available to me, and my pain levels pretty much restrict me to the point that I am not really able to go very far, very often in the first place. I have not been into town in over 2 years, my wife does all the shopping, etc and I have not driven the car in a LONG time. Where would I go
Anyway, hope you can maybe understand why I have gone overboard in my attempts to get help / pass on any requests for information and such, I have had so many questions and concerns for so many years it is SO VERY NICE to finally have people that are actually willing to put up with my dribble and help me with things that may prove to not really be issue at all when the smoke clears, I don't know, but it sure is nice to have such knowledgeable people willing to find out! I did take a lot of pictures yesterday and two short videos, I will go to the section that explains "how to" and get the important pictures out to all of you and additionally, I think I can ( another downside to living out here is we have a terribly slow ISP, so all uploads are very time consuming, but I have a lot of that
) upload the videos to Photobucket and link all of you to it directly, I think they will show you much better the size of the pond, the color, the odd layout, etc.
I am so thankful for all the suggestions you have given me, and I will pursue all of them. I will report back as soon as I have anything to report. Again, thank all of you so very much!
