Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Renovating a Pond or Lake? Starting over...

New guy here, I recently moved on to some land my wife will inherit if she outlives here grandmother. About 10 or so years ago the once 5 acre lake that was on the place formed a hole in the dam. From there on it got bigger and bigger until now it is essentially dry cept for the spring fed ditch that feeds it and a small section that is backed up by the beaver. I am contemplating purchase of a D3 size dozer to push the lite silt around and out and to clean around the banks. I have access to backhoes, a 45 HP tactor with a loader, and a dumptruck. One reason for purchase of a dozer is that I don't have enough time "in a row" to justify renting one and I have a couple more small projects other than the pond I'd like to do, to have a operator hired. My goal is to have a place like I did growing up for my kids which are 3(girl) and 2 months to go to keep them off a nintendo and either in the woods or fishing. And "Daddy" likes to fish too! Am I nuts? Probably. My biggest concern really is the dam work and rebuild. Can a novice build a good dam or does it really need to be done by a pro? Keep in mind I don't have to have this done immediately. Thanks, Daniel

Daniel, welcome to the forum! A novice can do it, but they need to do a bunch of reading on it. It's more than just pushing dirt around. A proper dam needs a properly compacted keyway, you need to look into designing a primary and secondary spillway, etc. There are lots of guys out there that can dig a hole in the ground, or dam up a ravine, but few that can do it so that it holds water.

If you have the time, you should be able to research and read on how to do it.

You can't compact the soil correctly by driving over it with a dozer or excavator. A sheepsfoot roller or one of those multi tired scrapers (loaded) can do it.

Hi Daniel, welcome. Do you have any pictures that will help us. A 5 A lake would be great, and you should go for it. The first concern, as you noted, is the dam. It's hard to make a general statement about that - it might not be as bad as you think. A pro would be the best way to go, unless you have the knowledge and the time. There will be good people coming to offer advise shortly, so get ready - you can do this...

You absolutely can do it yourself with those pieces of equipment. If you haven't already found a D3, try to find one with a 6-way blade, as it really increases the versatility.

While you are at it, I would put a wide deep breach in the old dam and install a good standpipe with an antiseep collar. When you rebuild the dam, do it in 2-4 inch layers of moist clay that are well compacted. If you've got ag tires on the backhoe or tractor, they will usually do a better job of compacting than the dozer tracks, just because of the pressure per square inch from the bar treads.

Before you drive anything into the body of the old pond, make sure it is dry and solid. Old ponds have a way of swallowing heavy equipment -- I speak from experience. Using the backhoe and dump truck is probably the safest and fastest way of removing the old muck, unless you can do it with the tractor loader.

Make sure you put in a good emergency spillway. It will keep the dam from breaching again.

Good luck,
Ken

Thanks, Guys. The only reason I am attempting to do this myself is because it's essentially built (the old basin is there), minus the dam. I will get some current pics over the weekend as well. Be ready it is grown up. And again I must stress that this may end up taking me a couple or three years to complete. I'm not diving in, just wading off! My wife works for the extension service and I am good friends with one of the agents there. He has come to look at it and we both agree that I can get it done if I don't get overly impatient. THis thread could turn into a 20 pager by 2015 Lord willing!

That's O.K. We have some long running projects on here, and they are followed closely. As long as you are doing it yourself, and time isn't of the essence, make sure that the trees are removed from the dam and the roots are grubbed out. Trees larger than 4" dia. are not recommended. The larger trees have larger root systems, and if they die, the roots decompose, causing voids in the dam for water to follow, possibly eventually causing the dam to fail.

Either rent or have someone come in with a self loading pan scraper. What it will take you a year and a lot of fuel in a dozer you could do in a long weekend. I did a job site and dug an acre pond 6' deep, for water retention, stripped 2 acres of top soil and stacked it 1/4 mile away and used sand base of pond as fill for the 1.5 acre building site and parking area in 7 days. BE WARNED, the scraper burns 100 gl diesel a day and is the roughest machine you will ever operate.
I have never built a dam but if you have some nice heavy clay, there is nothing that packs in better than a pan scraper full of dirt.
Buy a transit if you do not have one. You will need it to get your dam level and get the fall right for your spill way or taper it off and make it more like a creek run off

Daniel, the junk from the bottom will probably not be of the quality to build the dam. Find a source for a sandy loam mix of about 50% clay.

There are a couple of problems with 100% clay for a dam. The first is that grass has a really tough time growing in clay. The second is that clay cracks when moisture recedes during summers and dry spells.

Another idea is to contact a local landsaper or Exc contractor that sells a lot of top soil and give it to them. I am sure there is someone that would come in strip it and build your dam in trade for the top soil. Think I would hit them up for a nice aerator and nice diving area and waterfall on the spillway too.

Daniel,

The dump truck (loaded) you mention is the best piece of equipment you list for compacting dirt. You must find good clay on site to fill the dam back in with. I have worked @ Fayette and can tell you that finding good material is not always a given. You need to determine your watershed to know what size pipe or spillway you need. Your friend should be able to help with that. One thing to think about is that a hole forming in a pond dam is not normal. You will have to figure out why that happened to keep it from happening again. If it was from poor workmanship or poor quality dirt used to begin with, it may not be nearly as simple a fix as it seems. Experience comes into play here. It could also have been something as simple as a beaver or muskrat burrowing through. I would do as much investigating with the equipment I already have before purchasing a dozer.

-HH

Thanks, HH. I think it was not so much poor workmanship as maybe like you mentioned beavers or muskrats. It held water for over 50 years before the break. I did some more investigating on the pond and found that for many years(before my time) it was maintained well, mowed around, nuisance animals shot, etc. Then my inlaws moved away (not far but off the pond) it essentially was let grow up and then the critters took over. they think a MR got the digging started and beavers held back the spillway and overflow pipe. I'm not sure.

One question though, if the dam was built with good material, can I not move the dam reuse the old material from the original dam to build a new one and supplement as neccesary. I already considered building a new dam "in front" of the old dam essentially cutting the SA a little.

If the original dam has good material you should be able to use it again. It would require digging an entire new core trench, which is far more technical than repairing a breach caused from burrowing or tree roots, and a lot more work, too. It may also be too much for a backhoe to handle. Most jobs of that scale require a trackhoe to be done properly,

-HH