Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations What pump to use for a waterfall

So much conflicting information out there as to what is the best pump to use for a waterfall. I have a natural spring 80' x 160' and 150' deep. A 15' rock wall is at one end. I would like to pump water from the spring up and over the rocks. One person said to use a 2HP irrigation pump, another said a 3/4 HP pool pump. I was told the pool pump could pull the water up the vertical height and provide the volume of water without the force of the irrigation pump. I am looking for about a five foot spread over the rocks. Any suggestions with good rationales would be greatly appreciated.

Paul

Wow. That is a tough one.

But, first of all -- welcome to Pond Boss. We have a pretty vast membership, so hopefully somebody has some good suggestions.

My first thought was also an irrigation or sprinkler pump in the range of 2 HP. They can pull water about 20 - 30 feet, and they have pretty good output pressure, usually enough to push water at heights well in excess of what you are looking for. To run 24/7, 365 days a year is the real obstacle.

Hopefully somebody else can chime in, but I don't think a pool pump can pull or push the water you are desiring.

I'm assuming you want this thing running 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. It will need to be a really high quality (aka high cost) pump to do that. A shallow well pump would do what you need. However, I believe that running 24/7 would ruin it in several months.

Good luck,
Ken

Sarge, ideally, you want water 1" deep over the waterfall. That's a LOT of water. I'll see what I can find in terms of water volume needed.

Paul:

With 15' of head, and a waterfall that is 60" wide, it looks like you will need somewhere in the range of 150-200 gpm. I just installed a pump for a client that has a waterfall that is similar to yours, but a little bit less head. I used the TM 13500 pump from here

You'll also need an intake screen/filter, and I'd plumb it with 4" pipe. That pump has a 3" outlet, but you'll get more flow over a longer run by using a larger diameter pipe. That pump is designed to be operated in the upright position, not laying on it's side. It draws 12.5 amps using a 110v circuit. Make sure the wiring is up to the task too. The cord on the pump was 20'-25' long.

If you can, seal all the gaps in the rocks with expanding foam. Try and eliminate any water from getting under the rocks. Is there a liner under the rocks, or just soil? If soil, and water is able to get in there, it will wash the soil down, and everything will collapse with time unless the rocks are tied together.

Get the rocks as level as possible, and neck it down a bit to contain the water in the 60" wide area. If not, then the water might spread out further than that, and be more of a trickle than a waterfall.

I don't know if this will work for you, but I'm using a Hayward variable speed pool pump called Echostar. I've been running it 24/7 since installing it about 3 or 4 months ago. One of the things I like is being able to regulate the flow and therefore the electrical costs. Spec wise, it will pump approx. 150 gpm at 50' of head. I'm using 3" piping. Operating costs range from $10/month to $150/month depending on what rpm you decide to run. I'm only using half speed now for $30/month for approx. 80 gpm flow. The control panel will tell you how many watts you're using an hour, which is nice to compute electrical uses. As far as I know, these pumps were designed for running 24/7. This pump will also self prime to 10' of head, where many others will not. Something to consider. Here is a link to Hayward's site:
http://www.hayward-pool.com/prd/In-Groun...-1_14002__I.htm

Online cost somewhere around $850 if I'm remembering correctly.

Take a look at the "Artesian" brand of pumps. They have several models to choose from. The newer pumps may cast a little more up front, but some draw as little as 1.5 amps, which will save on the electric bill.Ultimately, you may want to call a pump company, give them your requirements, and they can recommend a pump size based on your requirements.

Artesian Cascade Line of Pumps

Will the water have a pooling place on top off the waterfall? The volume your looking for will be hard to achieve at that wide with one stream of water.. Where as if the water can pool up before if falls over that width would be much easier to achieve.

Thank you all for an incredible reply. Allow me to fill in some information gaps. I don't plan to run the falls 24/7 as the falls is located in a "sink" about a 75 yards from my cabin and then downhill about 40'. The rock wall is natural, not man made and is pretty much one piece, so I'm not too worried about washing out the dirt. I do however plan to build a basin at the top for the water to pool before flowing over the edge. If anyone can tell me how, I will attach a photo. I also have an issue with several large downed trees in the spring and I am trying to find someone experienced with timber recovery in the Suwannee County area. Eventually I would like to stock it with a type of fish that will keep the duckweed down. I heard Talapia is good for this, but that will be done in a later phase.

It was actually a pump company that recommended the 3/4hp pool pump. They were certain that the pump would have no problem pulling 15'head and providing the water volume. The only thing that I was confident about what they were telling me was about the output having less force than the irrigation pump.

My Hayward pump is pumping through 100 feet in front of the pump and then pushing 200 feet up to my first pond/stream location. The total head is between 40' and 50'. The head in front of the pump is seasonal between 6' and 10'. I'm getting approx. 160 gpm flow. My waterfall is 4' wide and has a nice decent flow over it at half speed which is about 80 gpm for what its worth. I contacted Hayward technical support before hand to get their opinion on whether this pump could do what I'm doing. Their answer was yes. Though that might be expected if they were just interested in selling a pump. Though I'm sure they sell quite a few without recommending their product for non-pool services.

Thanks DL. That is a viable option.

I forgot to mention that the controller that comes standard on the pump has 8 programs that you can use for scheduling. Plus four quick picks on speeds that are programable. Plus a "quick clean" setting that runs the pump at full rpm speed for an hour. Quite a few more options than typical single speed waterfall pumps.