Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Pond builder in west central Indiana

RAH, a buddy put in the 250K of Anderson GSH fry the first spring with a good bloom going, and IIRC a month or so later stocked FHM. With HSB & LMB in his pond he still has GSH in there and they are spawning. This is the 3rd Spring (I think) for the GSH fry.

I would not allow the field drainage into your pond. Explore diversions for the water. Better watershed water would be from greased inward slopes built from the spoil from the pond. Farm field water will often be turbid (silt sedimentation) and contain lots of nutrients to grow usually nuisance algae and weeds. Try to divert it. Silty water is not the best for SMB habitat.

The 6" fish in your son's aquarium was likely a creek chub and not a bluntnose minnow. BNM only grow to 4.5" long max. Most that you catch will be 1.75"-3". Anything over 3.5" be suspect & give it a second and third look. Your son probably had a creek chub which also has a lateral stripe but no distinct rear tail spot. There is a big difference between the size & shape of the mouth for BNM and creek chubs. Learn the difference. Also on BNM learn to notice the appearence of crowded scales on the top between the dorsal fin and head. Key featuers of BNM: mouth size-shape, lateral stripe with posterior spot, and crowed scales on top behind head. If you make a mistake and add a few creek chubs they will never reproduce and 20-50 in one acre will not cause problems although they could prey of SMB fry and ck chubs will easily grow to 7"-10" long before they die if the larger 14"-15" SMB don't eat them first.

I think that I need the watershed, but I may divert later to the emergency spillway if things get bad. The pond is very long, so it will cost a bit to do. I plan to have a deep hole at the entrance to the pond which will hopefully catch most of the sediment as the water slows down. My other pond also catches some field runoff and it seems to do alright, but maybe SMB are a bad idea?

If the SMB do not survive you can always later stock LMB or HSB. Often my expereince is the sediment from inflow will travel a long distance before settling - likely throughout the pond.

Are there any good references showing how to design an inlet from a farm field that traps sediment? I was planning on a 30 ft grassy area upstream followed by a deep hole to hopefully catch most of the sediment that settles quickly. Would a shallow area filled with emergent plants be better?

A wetland / marsh would be ideal if one has the space. There is probably a good ratio of wetland area versus watershed size. Check with local Soil & Water CD. Suspended silt/clay is a big deterrent to the aquatic food web. The SWCD may have grants or matching funds for construction of wetlands.

space is an issue at this site. I was wondering about relative value of each type of silt trap (grass, wetland, or deep hole) if they cover the same area. I will likely only have 50' by 50' that I am willing to take out of the pond area.

Well Graham Excavating just left after giving me a bill for the second half of the payment that was higher than the whole job was supposed to cost. He said that he could not just leave the piles that the last guy left even though I told him to. He then charged me for the work. He cut the bill by $1500 but now I am over budget and need to have the dam raised so a third guy is coming over tonight to bid the job. I wish that the pond builder that I used in the past didn't retire. I appreciate him more now than ever! West-central indiana needs a good pond builder!!!

RAH, sorry to hear that.

Get a contract in writing, and understand what every word means in the verbiage before you sign it. Probably a good idea to actually submit to you their financial background along with customers that will attest to the quality and how they backup their plan/work.

Cut throat hacks, usually steal the work from Highly Qualified People. Then you end up with a piece of junk, and post something like this.

I had a contract and could have probably won in court, but I just want to find someone who does what they say they will do for the price that they quote.

There are legitimate instances where a contractor will encounter sand veins or unknown field tile or other unplanned complications and then fairly charge more dollars. Moving dirt when they were told not to should not count as unplanned extra needed work. What if you planned on using those dirt mounds for sledding or 4-wheeler hills?

I am just worn out and pessimistic about the work ethic of many American workers. So many just think they are entitled and our federal government seems to agree...

I am now trying to get someone out to dig up and replace the drain pipe (12" double-wall plastic - 40' long). It is so bowed that you cannot see any light on the other end and it is deformed into an oval inside. I cannot even get anyone out to look at the job. The economy must be booming for excavators.

RAH,

I've been there done that. I learned several things about the excavators in my area.

1.) They do a lot of farm related digging as in drainage and perhaps it's easier to get this work done during a drought?

2.) Many in my area do a lot of different types of work as in construction and get tied up in that.

3.) Ponds can be a PITA for them with problems so some shy away from them. Many don't have a clue what a core trench is and get in to trouble for that reason when it comes to ponds.

I have someone coming over in an hour to quote the job that I picked out of the phonebook. He intalls new septics so hopefully he can lay a pipe straight and pack it in. Wish me luck...

Good luck RAH... It can be tough to convince a contractor, (or any other pro for that matter), to take on a job that someone else has already messed up. I hope you find someone willing to tackle it!

The quote on replacing the pipe is $1200 plus materials and the he shot the pipe elevation and the old pipe was set 2 feet lower than agreed to. It was supposed to be the same as the tile coming in. The new pipe can only be set 1 foot higher due to the height of the dam which still needs to be raised. The quotes on that are between 6 and 7K right now. This is all redo work because the excavation dirt was spread elsewhere even though the dam was closer. The guys looking at the pipe cannot believe he left it the way he did, but short of court, there is little to do but whine. Another excavator will bid the dam raising tomorrow. This is all dirt above the pipe, so leakage should not be a problem at this elevation. It will only get pressure during flooding before the water returns to normal levels.

Pipe installed sucessfully and maybe a contractor identified to raise the dam!

Great, maybe all is not lost but I understand the difficulty of getting contractors out to do work. I had to hound my pond builder to get him to start work. I am not able to get anyone to take a serious look at adding a well to my property for the pond, and the guy that install my septic (aerobic) has promised me that he would be out to inspect it for the last 4 months and has yet to show.

I have the same contractor coming out this weekend to ease the vertical (I kid you not) slope on the pond at the fill end, and another out soon to raise the dam up 2 feet to level 1 foot lower than originally planned. With that done I can see about getting the small silt pond built and then seed the area. I will only be 25-30% over the original budget and contract.

Is number 8 road gravel suitable for SMB spawning sites?

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92626#Post92626 SMB archive

Most likely sites selected were near shore , non silt , in water .5 to 3m, near wood ( cribs where available) and larger rocks where nest substrate consisted of gravel/rock where 40% of the particles were 6.4 to 149 mm in diameter ( .27 to 5.9 inches). In a 1m squared area . Coarse rock helped survival of eggs probably because of better O2 and less fungus. From http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=16146&page=7

Thank you - They started building up the dam today. I am away but my wife likes what she is seeing. The contractor is both correcting the very steep slope of the dam and raising the overall dam level. I'll start carting concrete chunks and stones to the pond for SMB spawn areas soon. Is there any disadvantage of adding FHM and golden shiners t0 the pond with only 4 to 5 feet of water in a small area in the center of the pond? Is it better to add these in Spring since the water looks glacial right now? Not sure there is enough food or O2.

I'd add some, and more when the water gets deeper.