Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Feeding Bill Douglas, how'd it work out?

Bill, I noticed the following thread initiated by you in 2002. It was excellent information. Just wondering if you ended up ordering the feed trained LMB.

By the way, it's always great to see some of you "low-numbered" guys staying around for so long. It just proves how great Pond Boss is.

Here's the thread...

http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000033;p=1

Bruce,
I did order the feed trained bass and they were beautiful 1 to 1 3/4 lbrs. My experience with them was short termed I guess I would say. They were alot of fun to catch that first year and I believe that they excited the Florida bass that year as I tended to catch a few more decent sized Floridas. I did not see them feeding at the feeders like I would have expected after a couple of weeks. It also appeared that they lost weight as the months went by. I guess that they just did not have enough forage to gain much weight.

The second year, I did not catch very many at all. By the way, we clipped a fin on every one as we put them in the lake. I don't think that another one has been caught since the second year.

Basically, my lake has been the same for years. Classic bass-crowded unfortunately with pure Florida bass. They are very difficult to catch (even the dinks). We do have some true trophy bass in the lake. I have seen and shocked up double digit bass on multiple occasions. I have landed two over 8lbs and lost some monsters. We do have one of the best bluegill lakes in Mississippi. Everyone who has fished for bluegill and thinks that they have caught big gills found out that they did not really know what a big gill was until they fished our lake.

That about sums it up.

Bill

Naturally, with me, I would be pretty enthusiastic about the trophy bluegill fishery.

I guess even with the difficulty in catching bass that there is some solace in knowing you've grown truly big fish.

This is very fascinating testimony on your feed trained LMB experience. I'm sure that as with most situations that there would be some variability in how a particular fishery responds to stocking of feed trained LMB. I would like it if Lusk or Overton or Grimes would comment on how feed trained LMB might react behaviorly to a situation where there isn't already an indiginous population of Florida strain.

Thanks for the comments, Bill.

Anybody have something to add?

To paraphrase what the Chief said to Josie Whales, "The words of Bill Douglas ring true".

Also, Thanks to Bruce, for that reference. It made for some really interesting reading.

I had forgotten about that thread. Good stuff. After re-reading it, there are two key ingredients missing in the advice. None of use told Bill what kind of feed to use. None of us suggested a thing about his stocking rate. In the four subsequent years since that post, I have come to the conclusion that feed trained bass won't eat certain types of feed. They tend to be attracted to the feed they were raised on. They tend to feed sluggishly on commonly found feeds. Stocking feed trained bass into an existing population of bass, stocking 40-50 pounds per acre helps guarantee your new fish will seek the feeders. I believe it has something to do with competition and bass schooling habits.
Another thing I have learned is that habitat sometimes over-rides the full meal deal. One lake in particular, has proven to me that bass seek the "perfect" temperature rather than the feed bin during summer months. There's an open stretch of fairly shallow water where bass fed heavily until the water temp hit the upper 80's. At that time, they headed to deeper cooler water, and do not come to that feeder. Relative weights dropped from 130 to 110 over this summer. But, these fish have found their way in the natural food chain as they are still plump.
Regarding their life spans, I don't know yet. But, Theop Inslee claims to have a lake near his Oklahoma fish farm which has some of his bass in it which are older than 7 years and have reached well into double digit sizes. I haven't seen these fish, but Inslee makes it a point to talk about them every time I see him.
I also have feed trained bass in two of my own ponds. I am watching them very closely, like Col. Klink watched Hogan.

One more thing to add that probably contributed to the demise of the feed trained bass. I have stocked threadfin shad two times over the years and never saw any evidence that a reproducing population was established. Not really sure what happened. The lake is 8 acres, located near Oxford, MS, and has alot of deep water (over 15 feet) which should have provided some winter refuge. The only thing that I can figure out is that the overabundance of bass just wore them out in the first year. If we had a reproducing population of shad, I think the feed trained bass would have survived and grown.

I have another place in North MS that I bought last year that I am working on which is a little different. I have a 20 acre lake that was built in the late 60's and has never been managed. Currently has northern lmb, bluegill, black crappie, catfish, and some green sunfish. I had a substantial problem with musk grass (chara) and stocked grass carp a few months ago and they seem to have it under control. I'm planning to try threadfin shad this spring and hope to establish a reproducing population. I wouldn't mind stocking some coppernose bg also. Let me know if you have any suggestions on this lake.
Thanks

Bill :

What are your goals for the lake ?

Have you had water and or soil tests done on the new lake? Does it keep a bloom? Depth and temp. info on new lake? Does it get good water flow through (creek or big drainage)? What are the population dynamics of the new pond (LMB crowded, over abundance of Crappie , balanced)?

CNBG would do fine and not cause a problem with the TShad as they each occupy a different niche. You will need enough plankton. Some of the lakes around Oxford are infertile without lime and fert. - are both in that area?

It is hard to establish (or for that matter keep a good population of) any fish in a LMB crowded pond.

ewest,

Still trying to figure out my goals for the bigger lake. I don't think that I will go for trophy bass. But I would want consistant action on good sized bass. Currently culling all small bass, all crappie, and all green sunfish. Maybe manage for a balanced situation with an emphasis on bass.
I have had a survey done on the lake by Southeastern Pond Management. The lake is relatively infertile due to significant springs feeding the lake and the current spillway design which takes the water off the top. I'm looking into installing a siphon/spillway and eliminating the current spillway. By the way, I did this at the lake in Oxford and it made a significant difference in the fertility of the lake and it's ability to sustain a bloom with fertilizer. I have not fertilized the lake due to the current spillway design and amount of flow thru the lake. Also, the lake is currently about one foot below the spillway due to the dry conditions over the last few months and has a minor bloom without any fertilizer being added by me. The land around the lake is about half woods and half pasture and I let the prior owner graze some cows on the pastures.
Current population dynamics are that of a bass-crowded lake. The crappie population is relatively small and those crappie that were shocked were all in good shape and pretty large. All crappie that I have caught have been a good eating size at the smallest. The bluegill in the lake are northern bg and relatively small.
The 20 acre lake is a little farther north in MS near Potts Camp. This lake is also pretty deep with about 3/4 of the lake over 10 feet deep. There is also a reasonably large amount of cover still in the lake in the form of flooded timber.
Bill

Bill :

I will think about your situation and check a couple things and repost.

A couple points now. With cows in the water shed you should be getting some added nutrients if they can get anywhere near the lake.

As you noted taking water off the bottom ( or at least not from the top 4 feet) is a big help.

It sounds like the LMB and Crappie are keeping the BG in check and the same for the LMB on the Crappie.

SE Pond is a good group -- did they give you a report with alkalinity and DO/temps? With the results from that report you can really get some good info here. There are some good TShad threads here . I will find a few and post them here.

With springs and your location it may get to cold to keep TShad year round. They die off at about 42 degrees. It would be good to get some water temps of the spring water and the lake. If the springs are at 50+ degrees they may help the shad survive the winter.

Alkalinity was measured at 4.2 ppm and this resulted in a recommendation of lime. My situation in the Oxford lake was about the same and I did not lime that lake and still achieve good blooms that last a good while. I really don't want to spend the money on lime for a 20 acre lake. I thought that I would try fertilizing after changing the spillway design and hopefully not have to lime. I did not get a dissolved oxygen measurement, but I don't think that I have a problem there. I catch fish both shallow and deep, so I assume that there is not a problem with dissolved oxygen.

Bill :

With that alkalinity (very low) fert. would probably not work. Twenty ppm (20 mg/L ) is the min. low range for fert. to be effective.

This info may help with the ponds. It is a good basic source of Miss. info.

http://msucares.com/pubs/publications/p1428.pdf

SRAC 471 Fertilization of Fish Ponds
http://srac.tamu.edu/index.cfm?catid=25