Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain Amphibians?

Is there any value to stocking mudpuppies or certain frogs?

I know that frogs lay thousands of eggs and that tadpoles could be a viable source of forage in the spring.

I know that mudpuppies mature slowly and reproduce slowly, but I am thinking that you could probably establish a population of them due to their rather large adult size.

I guess that I shouldn't even start asking about fingernail clams, thin shelled snails, or crabs? LOL.

Basically, if you build it they will come. Nature finds a way. I have had a solid black band of toad tadpoles that was a good 18" wide by 300' long in my pond, and a month later the band was down to a few inches wide. That many got eaten.......

I agree, they will come.
I don't know any cases when owner stocked any frogs or similar amphibians but after some time they simply were there.

If only you wish to stock some special amphibians that certainly won't come by themselves then you may have a try but it doesn't mean they will like your pond.

Frog and toads can travel long distances over land during wet weather. Newts in the form of efts can travel long distances to colonize new bodies of water as well. Amphibians with no terrestrial life stage may find it hard to colonize a new body of water such as a pond that is fairly isolated. Species like mud puppies or waterdogs for example would be unlikely to populate an isolated pond.

I seriously doubt they would play anything but an insignificant role in the food chain of a pond. The only reason to stock them would be for personal desire and the uniqueness of having them in your pond. Most of these aquatic species do not do well in ponds where fish are present. Rather relying on vernal ponds or ponds that are too shallow that fish cannot survive in them or too isolated to be colonized by fish.

Thanks for the advice guys.

I thought that tadpoles could play a pretty big seasonal role in the food chain. Each female frog can lay 4000 eggs per example. Lets say that half of those eggs hatch. Lets say that half of the eggs that hatch make it to beyond the first few days of life and half of that amount make it to large tadpole size. This means that each female frog could put an estimated 500 large tadpoles to the pond every spring. If you have 100 female frogs that means that you get 50,000 pieces of forage in the pond every spring that your bass can eat.

The mud puppies I just have an affinity for. I think that they're interesting creatures and would like to add them to the pond as long as they don't disrupt things or cause any damage. I don't expect them to reproduce in any huge numbers and be truly significant as a food source, but I thought that with their large adult size (8" plus) that they could avoid predation and establish themselves.

As far as fingernail clams I would like to put them in to feed my redears. It would be nice to supplement their food intake and be able to have huge fat redears. Again, fingernail clams being another species that I would like to add if they wouldn't disrupt anything. I doubt that they would be of benefit to any species besides the redears as a food source, but for every redear that fills his belly on clams he isn't filling his belly on fatheads or shiners that could be eaten by something else.

As I'm just in the dreaming and planning stages these are the little intricacies that keep me awake at night LOL.

I believe that they are like anything else. If you have provided adequate cover, food, and a place for them to reproduce, and your water conditions are suitable they should be able to sustain a population.

This may not be the case, but to me it is worth the time and effort. I could buy 100 mud puppies and raise them in a smaller body of water, make a large brood tank, and then stock them in my pond when I have a few thousand large adults. If nothing else I could have an endless supply of them to use as trophy bass bait LOL.

If you give the forage fish a year to get their numbers up, you will have countless numbers of frogs and amphibians as there are no predators.

I plan on giving the forage species a year's head start. Probably not the threadfin shad and the gizzard shad won't be added until AFTER there are large bass in the pond.

I would consider putting mud puppies in with the initial stocking of forage if I could find HUGE adults, but I would never intentionally add frogs without predators in the water. I would not want 50,000 frogs in my pond next season LOL.

They would just show up. Some birds would eat them. You would not have 50,000 frogs.

Finding he fingernail clams is the trick. They have naturally shown up in a few ponds I have studied over the years and I have had luck transferring them to other ponds. The Asiatics clams are another option, but carry far more risks and are illegal to transport in many states.

I don't think that I would risk letting them reproduce with no predation. They are really only there to supply tadpoles to the food chain. So, I don't really want to risk them getting out of control. If you can point me in the direction of any actual studies of frog population in the absence of predation I would be more than happy to read it.

I will find them. I have no problems hunting stuff like that down. I also have no problems driving a few states away to pick something up if I really really want to have it. Its not like they are Bigfoot LOL. I know that they are out there. Its just a matter of locating them.

You won't have them.
Have you ever seen a pond without fish but with large amount of frogs? You haven't.
For example, one of my smallest ponds first few years had no fish in it and only later there were some crucian carps stocked. They aren't predators at all. What about frogs? Actually their count didn't change a lot. At least it looked so.

I know small ponds without any fish in them. What about frogs? The same - there are some and that's all. All other probably are eaten by some animals/birds or they simply go away to find another home.

I think you should stock what you want, if it isn't invasive. Can you tell a mudpuppy from a salamander larval stage? http://gfp.sd.gov/wildlife/critters/amphibians-reptiles/mudpuppy-tiger-salamander.aspx some more info, unless you don't have salamanders in NJ.

- Grundulis..I have seen ponds with crazy amounts of frogs, mostly bullfrogs, I mean, standing in one spot and counting 15+ without moving