Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Muddy water Gypsum powder vs. pellets Moving on to HAY now...

Alright guys, I've been reading about this topic for hours, which has now turned into days. I've been doing some tests as well.

First off, I just bought a house in February with a nice 1.5-2 acre pond 15 yards off the back door. I don't know what the average depth is or what all is in there. I know there is BH in there, we've been trying to clear them out by fishing for them over the last 2-3 weeks. Cleaned 68 so far! But that's off topic.

My visibility is less than 2" I'm guessing and I have done a couple tests, it is obvious that it is caused by suspended particles. I've been having trouble finding ground/powder Gypsum so I found a good deal on some granualted Gypsum a few days ago and bought 160lbs of it and threw it in the pond from the bank. After the fact I decided to run some more tests. Being that I couldn't find any powder Gypsum, I went to the basement and slowly scraped some drywall into a tsp, powdered gypsum!

The left glass is staight pond water, the middle glass has 1 tsp of the powder gypsum & the right glass has 1 tsp of granulated gypsum. (hopefully the picture works)

At the 4 hour mark, the middle glass was just as clear as you see it, however, the granulated glass was a dark brown, almost black color.As you can tell the middle glass is a far better result after sitting for 36 hours.

This is a 2 part post I guess, 1 for those wanting to see the difference between powder and granulated gypsum. 2 How much do I need for my pond?

Will 1 ton be enough to achieve a good visibility?

(sorry for the long post...)

Welcome to PB.

See this

https://srac.tamu.edu/index.cfm/event/getFactSheet/whichfactsheet/108/

Thanks! I remember seeing this before and couldn't find it again. Saved it now! Thanks again.

Thanks for the pics and let us know how things go.

In a 1.5-2 acre pond..2 to 6 tons of gypsum would be needed to be effective, if ever at all.

UPDATE: I finally was able to get on the pond last week and have some more accurate information. I come in just under 1.5 surface acres with an average depth of about 5.5' - 6'. My visibility has actually increased since throwing the 160lbs of granulated gypsum in to about 4". Still not very good, but better than the 1" we had before.

I have 2500lbs of powder gypsum coming. Where I am confused is that I have had some biologists tell me 500lbs would be more than enough, the pdf ewest linked says anywhere from 1000 - 3000 lbs an acre and Rainman suggests 2-6 tons to notice a difference, if any. Why is there such a variance? Do I just need to find the right formula for my pond?

The Jar tests ewest linked is the for the minimum amounts needed and in use, rarely are enough...the biologist, IMO, is probably just not familiar enough with gypsum, mine is just based on experience and knowing most water volumes are woefully underestimated and often gypsum just does not clear ponds well at all, IF at all.

I see. I am getting the gypsum really cheap so I would like to try that route first. Not sure I want to play the Alum/Lime game, even though it is proven to be more effective. Thanks for all your help, it's going to be a work in progress for awhile, that's for sure.

If I do put in all 2500 lbs and it doesn't clear to an acceptable level, can I put in another 2500 lbs? Or will I have to start all over and add 5000 lbs to equal the two 2500 lb treatings?

All the treatments are cumulative to a degree.....but attempting a partial clearing should never be the goal. You want you visibility to be determined by living organisms and never inert material.

Yeah, I just want somewhere around 12"-24" visibility instead of 4". What are some suggestions for adding living organisms to help control visibility? I was hoping the gypsum would just help jump start the process.

the fastest, best way...naturally, by completely clearing the suspended/mixed colloidal clay in the water. Without the sunlight penetration to support small organisms, your pond can't support as many fish as it otherwise could.

so, when or if I ever get it cleared, it should start supporting itself? I don't need to plant anything along the banks to help with that? I would like to plant some vegetation for fish as there is no greens in the water now. Or add any limestone rock to assist in keeping it clear and alive?

Any plantings in the shoreline and rip rap in the wind driven turbulance zones will help reduce or even eliminate problems with mud coulding. Once a pond establishes it's natural ecosystem, it will generally stay healthy as far as nutrients are concerned, but a pond is not "natural" to begin with and always needs some form of management.

I posted this similar question in another thread, but don't want to hijack anyones topic, so here it is again.

I tested my pond water with a nice pool test kit the other day. Nice Sunny day 72F real-feel of 76F. Here's what I got:

Hardness - 0
PH - 6.6
Alkalinity - 40
From the link ewest provided I determined a 21.24 mg/l CO2

From these results, does it appear that I should also get a couple bags of Ag Lime to toss in and around the pond?

What do you think?

A couple bags??...a few tons.......

A few tons? Ouch... Why so much? If I'm thinking about this right I just want the PH to come up between 7 & 8, Hardness to around 50 and my Alkalinity to 60-80 right? Being that I'm not too far off, I was assuming that a few hundred pounds would be enough. From what I have read it looks like you can never add too much as ph maximizes at 8.4, but I also don't want to waste it.

UPDATE: Well, my gypsum guy has officially fallen through I think. So I am moving on to the next affordable method... Alfalfa Hay.

I have done the tsp of vinegar test and it is almost crystal clear after 15 hours. So it should work. My question is, how do I distribute? Do I set the bales in 2-3 foot of water, break the bales up, throw them in the deep, etc?

I think I have found how much to add from this excerpt from Kennith Williams "Clearing Muddy Ponds" for a soft mud bottom with very little aquatic vegetation.
--
"Apply hay at the rate of 3-5, 50 lb square bales per surface acre or an equivalent amount of round baled
hay. Apply 1-2 additional bales of hay in 4 weeks if necessary. Do not apply more than 600 lb/acre /year.
If the pond has not sufficiently cleared in 4 months, treat with gypsum or alum. Use test provided to
determine application rate."
--

I do know there are better and faster methods for clearing my water up. But at this point I need to spend very little or none at all. that is why I am resorting to Hay as I may be able to get it free or for less than $50.

Just be aware that the hay in the water, once it starts to decompose, will add nutrients, which in turn might be a contributor to a major algae problem in the future...

If it was my pond, I'd be searching harder for aluminum sulphate and hydrated lime.

I have read that and will try to stay minimalistic when adding the hay. However, I do not have any aquatic plants, or have seen any type of algae this spring yet. Which leads me to believe that nutrients may not be a bad thing in my pond. Of course, abundance can be detrimental.

I have teettered back and forth on the Alum game, but now I am forced to make the "cheapest" decision possible. That's why I am at Hay.

Picture of the vinegar test after 20 hours. Right glass has a tsp of vinegar and left glass is straight pond water

Try the barley hay and kill those geese behind the two glasses.

Geese not a good thing but not really your problem I don't think.. The hay will prolly be a waste of time and money to be blunt.. I haven't read much on success from that method.. If you want it fixed talk to Rainman..

And why not post some pics of the pond.. How old is the pond and was it ever clear..

I have read that the barley will not work in this case. From what I understand the theory behind the alfalfa is that it is rich in nutrients and as it decomposes will clump the suspended clay together to fall to the bottom.

If it is a waste of time, I'm not too worried about it, I will end up getting the alfalfa for next to nothing if not free anyway. May try it in a 5 gallon bucket first. I have talked to Rainman on the subject as well.

I am not sure on exact age of the pond, I do know it is over 20 years old. We just bought the place in February and don�t know if it was ever clear. I do know that one of the old owners, several years ago, raised CC in it and drained it every year.

Here are a couple pictures of it. The water has dropped about 2-3� since these pictures. Thanks

Why not try alum and hydrated lime ? Plenty of threads here on the subject.