Pond Boss Forums INTRO New Forum Member Introduction Preparing a minnow pond

I just moved to southeast Oklahoma(south of Durant on the Red River)where I'm finding that many of the local ponds have suspended clay problems. I have two ponds on my property, one is 1 acre and the other is 5 acre. Both have suspended clay. After hours of reading the Pond Boss and multiple jar tests, I think alum is going to be needed. My goal for the smaller pond is to use it to grow fathead minnows for my 5 acre pond. We have removed all the fish that we could with nets from the 1 acre pond, you know that we missed some. My next step (unless you suggest different) is to clear it and maybe apply rotenone to remove any fish missed with the nets. What are your thoughts? Water tests show ph 7.1 alk 19.3 hardness 80.1 Is there a method to clear it and kill it at the same time? Thanks for your help!

Hello Fellow Oklahoman!

I just suggest you grow just bluegill and other forage fish in that pond. Then you can catch all you want and you will have fish to supplement the larger pond and some would survive to reproduce. It might be a lot of but I would think it would be benefical.

Yeah, fatheads make questionable forage for anything other than small fish.

My thought was to grow a large population of FHM to later be transfered to my 5 acre pond and some of them to neighbors ponds. I intended to add forage fish to the minnow pond later. what would you suggest to clear the clay and kill out any unwanted fish that may be in there now. Like I said earlier, we netted out everything that we could.

What are the size and species of fish that you want to feed with the FH?

When u clear it with alum, dont use the lime as recommended. That "accidently" gave me a very nice fish kill last year. Then after a week or so test the water and add lime as needed to stabilize the ph.

There are some areas along the Red that are pretty resistant to permanently clearing.

The neighbors pond is over stocked with bluegill. We were going to transfer minnows to his pond and bluegill back to my ponds. Is there a concern about moving fish from pond to pond. Later I will stock with LMB and any other species of forage fish needed to establish a good food chain. I know it will take time and things will have to be done in the right order, that's why I've come to the people thats been there and done that! My fist step will be my biggest challenge, clearing the ponds. I was told that the water on both have had this chocolate milk look to them since they were built 4 year ago. There is no bottom veg at all. Of course it hasn't seen the light of day in 4 yrs. I've talked to alot of people in the area, and yup, Dave nailed it when he said ponds here tend to resist being cleared. On the other hand, I haven't talked to anyone that has applied Pond Boss knowledge to their problem. I know that with some hard work and sound advice I'll be able to "gitrdone"!

I'm attempting a similar forage pond project myself, but my pond is only about 1/4 acre in size and the drought has reduced the size to considerably less than the quarter acre. This allowed me the opportunity to deepen and apply rotenone to the pond. fatheads won't last long in establish ponds, so I hope to stock coppernose only. And, I'm thinking that transferring BG fry to bass hungry ponds might not be any better - maybe, 3" or 4" sizes would fare better(someone may have a definitive answer ). Be sure that the bluegill you stock are bluegill and not greenies. Sometimes, it's hard to distinguish between them when the're only an inch oe so in size. Also, some of the 'Fish Truck' people will label any sunfish as simply bluegill.
I'm located about 25 miles south of the Red, but my pond have stayed clear. However, I've noticed water in ponds nearer the Red (Hugo area) tend to look similar to the water in the Red.

That drought put the hurt on alot of ponds. The majority of the ponds in this area went dry. many of them got cleaned out as a result and thankfully are nearly full again. You said that you applied rotenone to your pond, where does a person buy it? Is it considered a restricted chemical? What I know about forage fish could be written on the head of a pin with magic marker, but I'm learning alot from the forum. Untill now everything was "perch" unless it was bass. Never to old to learn! I would like to find someone in the Durant,Sherman,Denison area thats equiped to apply alum to 5 acre pond. I'm not against buying everything but don't know if it would be stuff that I would only use a time or two and then put it away to collect dust. Any thoughts?

Rotenone is a Federally restricted pesticide. Shop around for an applicator locally. Rotenone is best applied when the water is at low pool (cost) and when water temperatures are between 55-80F. Murky water absorbs rotenone and reduces the toxic affects, thus hiagher concentrations need to be applied for proper treatment. Your local University Extension office may have names for local applicators or tell you where to call.

Perpetually murky water will inhibit submerged weed and algae growth due to low light penetration factor - a good and bad thing. Murky water also inhibits development of the food chain due to fewer plankton that feeds larger 'critters'. Plankton needs light for growth. If your water is usually murky is the watershed covered well with grasses and perenial vegetation? Muddy runoff water will always contribute a new dose of murky water that often does not clear up very fast - it depends on the soils of the water shed. The clearest water a pond has annually is that water of the winter season when most biological activity is less.

Thanks for the info Bill. I'll contact the extension office monday. The watershed is covered with bermuda grass all the way to the water line. I've watched the water come in during a hard down-pour and it appears to be clear entering the pond. I called the man I bought the place from today and learned something that I didn't know. Seems there was a 1 1/2 to 2 acre pond that was enlarged to make the 5 acre pond. He said the old pond had good clear water and bottom veg. He said he was puzzled as to why the reconstructed pond wouldn't "settle". I might mention that there are no cattle in the pasture, it's a hay meadow. There are CC and BC in the pond. I kept one of the jars of pond water that I added alum to for over a month. I would shake it up every now and then to see if it would resettle and it did. Don't know if that means anything? Also kept a jar with just pond water in it on the shelf for over a month and very little settled out. The water in the pond is just as muddy right now as it was all summer. As far as the soil type around the pond soil tests show it to be sandy loam.

Yes, a pesticide applicator license is required for the purchase of rotenone in Texas. I purchased a gallon of 5% (labeled Panfish toxicant)from a local chemical supply for $75, and applied it with a hand sprayer.
The concentration varies depending on the target fish. Generally. a gallon will treat 3 to 6 acre feet of water. The treatment was pretty effective. Literally thousands of dead small green sunfish were visible along the pond edges.
I've seen alum applied to ponds with a trash pump from the pond edge. It should be a manageable task for ponds of 1 acre and smaller, but hiring it done would probably be more practical for anything larger.
Curiously, have you tested the alkalinity and hardness of your pond water ?

Yes, I did have the water tested. The alkalinity was 19.3 hardness 80.1 and ph 7.1 The 1 acre will be fairly easy,I think, to apply the alum from the bank, The 5 acre pond might be a bit of a challenge. If I could find someone already set up to do large ponds I would use them. As I mentioned earlier, we just moved to the area last April so my knowledge of contacts and resources for this area are limited. You wouldn't happen to know of someone interested in tackling a pond of this size would you?

Bob Lusk may be able to direct you to someone who can handle such a task. I think that he is located somewhere just east of the Sherman area.

Texoma Fish Hatchery is in Whitesboro. You should visit the site at www.texomahatchery.com and call them tomorrow.

Thanks guys for the info. Whitesboro is only about an hour or so from here, should be a great contact. Didn't know that Bob Lusk was from this area, might send him a PM and see if he knows someone. Thanks again to everyone who's responded, you've been a great help!