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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1
Hall of Fame  Lunker
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Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1 |
Tesla made Edison look like a flunky and in truth Edison also had a lot to be desired in ethics. Edison hired Tesla as an assistant and promised to pay him a large sum of money in bonuses if he got the bugs out of Edison electrical distribution system. Trouble was when Tesla came through Edison said they never had an agreement and never paid him. Edison also spent a lot of time thereafter trying to discredit him. I wonder if Edison really invented the light bulb instead of one of his more educated assistants?
Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 11/03/11 07:23 PM.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1
Hall of Fame Lunker
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Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1 |
I feel natural gas is probably the most under utilized natural resource we have available. I think most of the infrastructure required to use it is already in place, there's no reason we shouldn't expand on it's potential.
However, as with any finite resource, I believe there is a limited supply, whether it be 50 years, 100 years, or 200 years worth, the fact is we're surely using it up faster than the earth can replenish it. Someone, somewhere in the future, will have to deal with finding it's replacement.
I'm trying to choose my wording carefully here, as I don't wish to turn this into a political debate and incur the wrath of a moderator.
All I'm trying to say, is I believe that we should explore different alternatives today....instead of following our usual doctrine of "We have plenty for the moment, let's not worry about it until the day before it runs out" Let's invest in alternative technologies now, start getting the bugs worked out now, and not abandon a project or process because it didn't work perfectly the first time around, rather let's show some foresight and actually be working on a long term solution.
If this is over the line, I apologize to everyone, and would ask that it please be removed. Sparky, I compliment your vision and agree on finite energy resouce - BUT - it's a strictly a matter of economics - alternative energy cost effectivness is way down the road. George, I agree but it won't hurt to be ready when the alternative energy technology is needed. Just because the price of gas goes down doesn't mean it will be passed on to the consumer. At least I'm not seeing it in my area. I've been waiting for my power costs to get high enough to make solar/wind cost effective for my home and two businesses if not just to get off the grid. It's getting close. It should be cost effective once I get the house paid off and put up a system for the price of a new car. But like I said my local government is trying everything they can to keep me locked into the power producing corporations. It may take a law degree to fight them.
Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 11/03/11 07:21 PM.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1
Hall of Fame Lunker
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Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1 |
We have a four hundred year of coal so I think we should use that also. But the politicans don't think so. At what price? Have you seen those flattened mountain tops in Appalachia? Did you know a lot of the mercury in our environment comes from coal fired plants?
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1
Hall of Fame Lunker
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Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1 |
In my small mind the root problem is government intervention in the free enterprise process. It artificially forces us down a dubious technology road with tax dollars. By subsidizing its chosen technologies against other promising technologies it actually slows the progress toward the development of real world workable energy solutions.
I'm with you at least part of the way on that as I've seen it with my own eyes. Just my opinion but I believe the ethanol from corn thing is a boondoggle and a waste of funding. On the other hand there are a lot of things we take for granted that would not have gotten off the ground without government funding. I believe the Internet is one example. And no Al Gore didn't invent it but he was responsible for legislation to promote the research funding. The Space race is responsible for a multitude of technologies and products that would never have come about if not for the government funding of NASA.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 22,033 Likes: 483
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 22,033 Likes: 483 |
I would rather not have the gov playing like an investment banker with our tax dollars. Let the private sector take the risk and the loss or reward.
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,897 Likes: 63
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,897 Likes: 63 |
I have not as I am not from that part of the country. But there is pros and cons to everything. I don't have the solution otherwise I would be a very wealthly man 
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1
Hall of Fame Lunker
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Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1 |
I would rather not have the gov playing like an investment banker with our tax dollars. Let the private sector take the risk and the loss or reward. Would you agree though that there are things that the private sector would not fund because there isn't enough short term profit? I believe that research would never happen if it were not for government funding? Some things are just too big for the private sector to fund. How much research would take place in universities without government funding?
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,897 Likes: 63
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,897 Likes: 63 |
Would you agree though that there are things that the private sector would not fund because there isn't enough short term profit? I believe that research would never happen if it were not for government funding?
I agree with this. There is some research that goes on that the private sector would not fund anyway.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,739 Likes: 36
Administrator Lunker
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Administrator Lunker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,739 Likes: 36 |
Government involvement increase costs by creating a bloated (out of)control bureaucracy that contributes nothing to the value of a project. The actual work is done by private companies not by the government.
Life is Good on Bremer Pond!
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 22,033 Likes: 483
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 22,033 Likes: 483 |
Research went on a long time without gov (tax )dollars and lots of stuff was invented.
I think you have to distinguish between true research (science) and economic research.
In the green stuff the tax payer risks his $ but does not share any profits (i.e. grants , loans , and credits). Plus the gov is a terrible judge of merit and business practices so our $ are just thrown down a rat hole. And that does not even address the question of who's friends get the tax payers $ (crony capitalism).
BTW IMO this thread is as close to the edge as we can get - it might have to go by-by.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,555 Likes: 411
Moderator Lunker
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Moderator Lunker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,555 Likes: 411 |
I'm staying out of this one. When my blood starts boiling.....
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.
Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP Grandpa
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 33
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 33 |
Nobody asked me, but as a relative newcomer to this forum, it does strike me that despite some obviously strong views on both sides, it speaks very well of this community that the tone is so restrained. All of us may be, and at least some of us must be, guilty of the grave offense of being wrong on the Internet, and yet it's all very civil. Not many forums I've been a part of have this healthy a culture.
And I have to say that although my personal views are more on the Cecil/sprkplug side of things, I can't stop chuckling about the combination of the picture with all the oily black smoke and Dwight's line about the carbon footprint. Well played, sir.
No pond yet, not even land. But working on it. ![[Linked Image from i1196.photobucket.com]](http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa406/stickjacksonuga/I_subscribe.gif)
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,981 Likes: 18
Ambassador Lunker
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Ambassador Lunker
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,981 Likes: 18 |
I agree, Dwight penned the perfect caption for that photo...Hilarious!  Speaking just for myself, I realized the possibility for trouble existed with this thread, and tried to temper my comments accordingly. We're indeed fortunate to have a forum where opinions can be expressed by the membership, without resorting to getting up in someone's cyberface. This forum, and the folks who post here, are definitely a cut above the norm. I appreciate the mods letting this topic run it's course, I find it enlightening to hear other viewpoints, and certainly I am not opposed to learning something new.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,739 Likes: 36
Administrator Lunker
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Administrator Lunker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,739 Likes: 36 |
BTW IMO this thread is as close to the edge as we can get - it might have to go by-by.
If it gets to that point, can you just freeze the thread deleting the post that sends it over the edge? There is commentary on both sides of the issue that are worthy of a read, no matter where you stand on the issues.
Life is Good on Bremer Pond!
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 529
Fingerling
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Fingerling
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 529 |
It's easy to get off on these tangents. Especially where the "gummint" is involved. However, we sould stick to pond stuff. There are plenty of chat rooms if you want to get your blood pressure up on green energy.
People say I'm apathetic, but I really don't care.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 475
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 475 |
I am actually relieved that many feel as I about current events. We all recognize a political and directional problem. I hope all of you go to the PB convention. Not that we need to get into any deep (unless you want too) conversations, after spending some time drinking some flavored water, but at least I know I can be relaxed!!  I've caught some comments by others in other threads here, and I know I can relate with them. We may split hairs but have the same basic ideologies.
Last edited by JamesBryan; 11/05/11 07:29 PM.
Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat and drink beer.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 22,033 Likes: 483
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 22,033 Likes: 483 |
To avoid that I will lock it now. If someone wants it open let one of the mods know.
Unlocked so people can make changes. Done so now locked.
Last edited by ewest; 11/05/11 09:25 PM.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 22,033 Likes: 483
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 22,033 Likes: 483 |
Got this today.
"I work for the company the manufactures and installs the wind turbine in the picture. The cause of the fire was human error, unfortunately the human payed a severe price.
The turbine was still under construction while a technician used a pair of 600 volt leads to measure a 34,500 volt source. This caused the leads to instantly vaporize causing what is called an arc-flash (imagine a 6' plasma ball). The tech received significant 2nd and 3rd deg burns and was life flighted out. He is alive and recovering. The other technicians were more concerned about rescuing the injured tech than putting out the fire.
These turbines are relatively low maintenance and are designed to last about 25 years. Most of the maintenance done is preventative, greasing, cleaning, torquing, etc. Incidences like these are extremely rare given the quantity currently in place.
Regards - Fellow Pond Boss Subscriber"
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Moderated by Bill Cody, Bruce Condello, catmandoo, Chris Steelman, Dave Davidson1, esshup, ewest, FireIsHot, Omaha, Sunil, teehjaeh57 |
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