Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Wildlife Management Raccoons and Fish Feeders - How To Keep Them OUT!

To expound on the live trap, my experience has been that the 'coons enter them quicker if the top and sides are covered with plywood or something like that. Don't use a cloth because it'll end up in the cage with the 'coon. They'll go into a hollow trunk of a tree lying on the ground more readily than a wire cage.

We wrap our traps in a heavy tarp to avoid being sprayed in case we catch a skunk instead of a raccoon. Been there, done that (4 times), glad we had it covered. Now, if we could only get our Golden to stop chasing the skunks and getting sprayed weekly…

We always made our own live traps, or box traps as we called them, out of 1 x 8 lumber. they had a sliding door, and were solidly enclosed on all sides. The bad part was being unable to see what exactly was in the trap until you slid the door open and took a peek!

I've made a couple dozen over the years, mostly for rabbits, although coons and skunks, along with possums, were always a possibility.

I will say that this discussion has caused me to think about the many differences in geography, population, and practices in the US of A. The COUNTY I live in has 1 McDonalds restaurant, 1 doctor's office, 4 stop lights, 1 RR crossing w/automated crossing gates, more miles of gravel roads vs. paved, and if you find a flat, level area with no trees on it you can rest assured that it's man-made, not natural.

Around here, most folks do what they deem neccessary without calling attention to themselves. If that involves the demise of raccoons, herons, eagles, coyotes, or the neighbors unruly dogs, well then, that's the way it is. Folks know it, expect it, practice it, and accept it.

No place is immune to the passage of time, including here. I expect that the future will bring many much needed changes, including more governmental intervention. But for now, I imagine most people around here will keep doing things the same way they always have. Taking care of their own business and keeping quiet about it, and not worrying too much about federal, or local for that matter, interruptions. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, or that I agree with it. Rather, that's just how it is.

- I grew up (through high school) in a small, North TX agri/ranching community that boasted 10k residents. Through friendships, I had year-round access to thousands of acres on which to hunt, fish and trap. To us, going to "the city" meant driving an hour to Wichita Falls (pop 100k).

- Needless to say, Houston (Harris Co: pop > 4 million) was a culture-shock. Of the 254 counties in TX, Harris Co is the only county that requires WRITTEN PERMISSION on one's person to legally discharge a firearm on property other than your own (unless the certified property-owner is present). At first, I thought this was a stupid law. But, after hanging with "city people" for more than 20 years, I now better understand the logic. Just watching these folks drive is scary enough.
- Moreover, the attitudes and opinions of those who lack a rural background are absolutely unbelievable. Most have little concept of reality outside of the concrete jungle - other than what they see on tv (think "Wild Kingdom", where animals are humanized). Yet, the urban-vote carries a lot of weight and can readily impact the way of life throughout Rural America.
- What I'm slowly getting around to saying is this: Before the advent of 24-hr network news and before an unnamed VP invented the Internet, Rural USA was able to live below city-folks' radar (based on my personal experience). Upping the ante is the huge increase in "rural-weekenders" over the past decade (urbanites who escape to their 20-acre "ranchettes" during weekends). So, if someone (like the TX rancher mentioned earlier) does something "news worthy" that is subsequently leaked or discovered (especially by rural-weekenders), he can bet his grandfather's prized shotgun that the entire nation will hear about it - and the results may not be pleasant. JMHO
- Although I share your sentiments, I also believe there are much better (lower risk) alternatives than some that have been suggested in this thread.

Kelly - very cool pics. I think if I dug through enough photo albums and old shoeboxes that I could match each one!
I think your grasp of rural America, and the situation being discussed in this thread is dead-on, 100% correct.

I firmly believe that changes are on the horizon for my little corner of this country, and rightly so. I agree completely with what you've written, my reason for posting was just to show that places do still exist where intervention from an outside agency is highly unlikely, even when such intervention would probably be in the general public's best interests'. Again, just stating facts, not debating the morality of anyone's actions.

I should say that I have always respected you for your knowledge and professional expertise,and your willingness to share it with myself and others on the forum. Now it feels like I know a little more about the person behind the credentials, and I have nothing but respect for that guy, too.

Thanks for your kind words. In all honesty, I stated my youthful background to insure that I wasn't tagged as "one of them". Far from it!

BTW: For fear of losing my shoeboxes full of photos and archived documents, I scanned 'em all! - and keep the digital copies stored in multiple locations. I had several buddies who lost virtually every physical shred of their childhood memories to a tornado in April '79. One never knows!!
Sorry for the tangent....

I don’t know, sprkplug, about "the much needed changes to come"… it’s a real slippery slope, I think. For example, I’m currently commuting between Los Angeles and central Texas. In LA County, it is illegal to “harass” a coyote let alone practice any type of control and now there are packs of coyote roaming around in broad daylight in my neighborhood. They have absolutely no fear of people and, on occasion, we hear reports of toddlers being grabbed (and these are not unsupervised children). To compound the problem, some of these “coyotes” are twice as big as normal as they have interbred heavily with large dogs (the small dogs are just snacks). In my mind, the problem is when laws are passed that are not based on reason and possible unintended (and, often tragic) consequences are not considered. Personally, I prefer my place in Texas (nearest town population: 393) where there’s less regulation. One of my concerns, though, is as the number of California transplants increases in Texas, we may all see greater pressure for “restrictions”. I apologize in advance if I have offended anyone – none was intended – it’s just my frustration leaking out….

What??? There are laws that aren't based on reason?
I'm with you brother! But, I also recognize that we (collectively) often invite increased regulation by making unwise, uninformed or inconsiderate choices.
While some new regulations have merit and help guide individuals' actions within an ever-expanding population, others regulations simply attempt to save us from ourselves.
I'll blame much of the need for increased regulations on the advancements in emergency room technoligies; which have robbed many deserving individuals of their potential Darwin awards, thus tainting the downstream gene-pool.
(btw, I barely survived my senior year in HS thanks to an ER's services - and yes, I was "robbed")

Systematic interferance with Darwin Awards can only have one realistic long-term consequence, and it ain't gonna be pretty. Government laws (as opposed to laws of nature) to protect us from ourselves make me quite angry. I have a mother and do not look to politicians to serve as my protector or moral compass. By the way, more than 50% of Americans do not believe in evolution which iself shows what happens when we interfere with evolution. Sorry, if this steps over the line - moderate as needed.

Yeah it's amazing the havoc that a few probably well-meaning but hopelessly uninformed people can create. I am a firm believer in each individual being responsible for his/her own actions. Unfortunately, there always seems to be those folks who couldn't pour rainwater out of a boot even if the instructions were written on the heel.

Sadly, at least up here, there are more of these kinds of people all the time. They must be able to reproduce exponentially or something. Hopefully, it's better down in Texas.

"Harrassing" a coyote?? Oh I can harrass all right. With extreme prejudice. I suspect after reading this that there are some Texan pondmeisters quite capable of doing the same thing......

On my land, I consider myself the top of the food chain and make all appropriate decisions.

I only hunt during appropriate seasons. However, if the deer population got out of hand, I would do what was necessary.

If I had chickens and a hawk was getting them, I wouldn't mess with a depradation permit.

Unless rattlesnakes are around the house or pond, I don't mess with them. Lot of my neighbors have trouble with my snake tolerance but, It's my land and I make the decisions.

Kelly, Muleshoe didn't even have 10,000 people passing through in a good month.

Well, if we had grizzles, not sure that they would agree on who is at the top of the food chain. I think we have way too many laws, many which are just plain moronic. However, before hunting laws, whitetails were all but wiped out. Our local DNR folks are practical and reasonable. Getting a deprevation permit is not a hassle and keeps yahoos from shooting everything that moves. I enjoy deer hunting, and appreciate the possibility of bagging a trophy. I am not sure that I like the new one-buck rule. I used to have the opportunity of one bow and one gun buck, but the one buck that I have taken in each of the past five years are each bigger than any that I took previously. This may not all be the one-buck rule, but if everyone followed the laws, I am confident that more large bucks would be walking around. The local hacks that take one for themselves and then get a licence for their wives so they can take another one are simply greedy. The liberal doe limits rule out the defence that they need the meat. Venison is one of the most expensive meats one can eat. I wish we had a season on poachers!

I know people who take quite a few deer every year. However, they do it on their own land and it all goes on the table. I don't have as much problem with that as I do the road hunters.

Yes - This kind of attitude wiped most of the deer out of America. You may disagree, but I would guess that these folks would not stop killing the deer if they were offered an equivalent amount of meat in return for them not killing more deer than allowed by law. Folks eat deer because they kill them. They do not hunt so they can eat venison. I love hunting, so I obey the rules so I can continue to enjoy this sport. If they want to put up a high fence, then have at it. Otherwise they are killing deer that belong to all of us. They are stealing from me, and I don't take kindly to that. I know quite a few people that feel like you, but they stay far away from me.

I agree completely. Dave, you summed up in this one post what I've been struggling to express all afternoon.

I'm guessing you do not make your living off the land. Those that do don't glamorize it.

RAH, are you referring to myself, or Dave? If it's Dave, then I'll let him respond and apologize for getting in the way.

If it's me, then let me just say, huh???

I'm not trying to be confrontational, I just don't understand what you're getting at?

What I am getting at is that farmers have not raised chickens in the USA where hawks can get at them for over 50 years. Only urbanites with some fantacy about going back to the land would use having a few chickens around as a hobby to justify killing hawks. For heaven sakes, build a cage or buy one with the money you make on your regular job. Living off the land is an urban myth in America. Killing wildlife illegally is like collecting welfare - living off the property of others. Unless you are making your living off the land, killing deer because they are eating your garden plants is a lame excuse. Put up a fence for your hobby, don't justify illegally killing a shared resource on some noble cause. Just stop and think about what you are suggesting. If you are experiencing real deprevation, then getting a legal permit is not a problem.

You guys are entitled to your opinions. Stop the personal replies. State you opinion about a law or regulation but stop the personal stuff now!

My apologies - just got a little hot under the collar. I will try to be more civil. You would think that an old guy like me would know better. I just think that some folks are not thinking things through.

No anger or hard feelings on this end at all. As far as I'm concerned, it's nothing more than a couple Hoosiers and a moderator from Texas having a neighborly discussion over property lines.

Ewest, if my apology is expected, please consider it offered. I certainly didn't mean to involve another mod.

Way too far west. But Vernon has more than 10k people passing through it almost every day (Hwy 287)
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Geez! I turn away for some family-time "42" and come back to find this heated debate - which began as something entirely different. I'll shoulder some blame for the ricochet, but will add a parting quote to ponder.

"The land and its resources belongs to the people. Some to the living, but most to those unborn.”
- Aldo Leopold

Whether viewed in macro or micro, his statement puts our existence and responsibilities as stewards into perspective.
(Has anyone ever noticed the philosophical effects of Smirnoff?)

I think that your quote above explains the heated discussion. We all just want to make sure that our kids do better and have at least the freedoms that we have now. While some of my statements, and beliefs behind them, may seem socialist, I assure you that I am far more libertarian than either of our political parties in DC. While I may get excited, I enjoyed the frank discussion above, but agree there are probably better places to have it than this pond forum. Getting back to the theme of this thread. Wraping the ill-gotten food being taken by racoons in exlax will result in them associating the food with a bad experience and leaving it alone in the future. One can always shoot the buggers, but please think about if you are doing this because no other reasonable alternative is available or to thin the population for ecological or economic reasons, or is just an excuse to shoot something? I love hunting, and just want to preserve game for myself and other rresponsible hunters in the future. If we do not control ourselves, we will give fuel to those that want to restrict or stop the sport altogether. With so few people with any real connection to the land, this is more than a fantacy. I know we all want the same thing, so please consider this.

RAH, PM sent

Thank you guys!!!! Well done. I have found that with this PB group just stating your opinion is enough to get others thinking. There is never a reason to have to make a personally addressed angry post. Leave those to those of us who are directed to take the heat (Bob and the mods). We have specific directions from Bob on what to do.

One thought to leave with you - life is a balance - with no restraints man can make a mess with to much restrain freedom is lost and man revolts. Private property, properly managed by owners with knowledge and care , in their self interest gives the best results.