Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations I don't see my Golden Shiners

I had a complete winter fish kill so I put a gallon of SH in my one acre 8 foot deep pond two weeks ago. Since then I have only seen three dead minnows and five live one. I had expected to see them arond the edge of the pond. I suppose they are out in the middle. Is this normal for Golden Shiners and will I see them when they have lots of fry? Maybe I should put in some FH. I want to see minnows swimming.

I also found and ordered Corkscrew (Vallisneria americana var. biwaensis) at http://www.aquariumplants.com/product_p/va069.htm

I would fix the reason for the fishkill before restocking..

The reason for the fish kill is the pond iced over and was snow covered almost all winter. I should have shoveled off a lot of the snow so the sun could have produced oxygen to the submerged plants. For 15 years the pond iced over most of the winterd but we never had a constant covering of snow like this winter in eastern Indiana. It was a wonderful pond but now I'm going to change to a minnow pond and play it from ear after that. But why aren't my GS along the edge of the pond?

John,

A gallon of shiners in a one acre acre pond is not very many for one thing, so perhaps if they are scattered you won't see them? And on top of that you may not see them until the water warms more. If you're anything like me in northeastern Indiana it's hasn't warmed very much.

Is it also possible they are hiding in some type of cover?

Are you sure you had a complete fish kill?

John the GSH can probably withstand most ponds that winterkill, I have ice cover and heavy snow for 5 months and have a good population of GSH.
After they spawn if you throw out some floating fish food you'll see the fry attack the pellets.

AP,

He planted them two weeks ago.

Yeah I was referring to the future survival of them, but a small aerator sure would help if he puts anything larger in there.

You really don't seem them, at least in my pond, but they are there.

Granted, John Monroe, if you didn't have a total, complete fish kill, then the GS can get eaten up pretty quick.

My bad! I thought maybe you just scanned his post like I usually do and missed that.

You're definitely right about minnows surviving winterkill conditions when other species don't. There are ponds used specifically for producing baitfish in Minnesota for that reason.

That's ok, I once thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken, I was right all along.

I thought I was right finally and found out I wasn't -- once again.

I have walked my pond maybe 200 time since the thaw. I was just out there and got a glimpse of a big fish that survived the kill. I was shocked. It was muddy looking so it is probably an Israeli carp or a grass carp. If it was an Israeli I hope I only have one or I could have a pond full of them without any predators. But they are great FA eaters. If it's a grass carp then my Corkscrew Ell grass might be in trouble when I plant them. I took pictures of the pond area so maybe I can get some posted in the future.

The GSH typically inhabit deeper water and don't hang around the edges like FHM or Gambusia do. We have a 65' long pier on a lake and the GSH are always near the deep end of the pier, never the shallow end.

I feel better now esshup. I guess I had beter get some FH's.

John:

A friend stocked GHS, FHM and Gambusia in a couple of his ponds. The only minnows that we continually see are the Gams. They went from less than a 100 in the pond to 1,000's by Fall.

+1
DIED put 9 (yep nine) Gams in his pond and those 9 turned into thousands. From those thousands I put in about 50 Gams into my pond and I have schools of Gams that I see are huge.

Yesterday I added some FH minnows along with the GS in my minnow pond only, that I introduced a few weeks ago and today I will plant my Vallisneria, Corkscrew (Vallisneria americana var. biwaensis) that arrived in really good shape. They look good as you can see in the pictures. The price was good I thought at 10 plants per order for $7.54 at http://www.aquariumplants.com/product_p/va069.htm. Since this was considered one of the best plants to put into a pond, then for new ponds especially, some might want to consider this.

Would others consider this plant a good thing in an Indiana pond? Does it survive well in a clay bottom? What is good about it? How deep in the water should it be planted? I have a regular depth pond (12') and also a couple shalow ponds (less than 5' deep). Will it survive in both types of ponds? Will crayfish take it out? So many questions, I know.

One of the best submerged plants for ponds. Not fast spreading but it does spread. Not a tall growing species compared to most other submerged weeds. It will eventually completely cover the bottom in 5' deep ponds. Plant it along shore in 1'-3' deep. Grows well in various bottom types but not so well in thick, soft unconsolidated sediments - muck. Excellent fish - invertebrate cover. Crowds out other undesirables. Be aware that your Israeli carp will likely up root most everything you plant. I consider Israeli's aquatic pigs, technically they are Zett's name for mirror carp a reduced scaled form of the common carp.

RAH, it is also late growing... At least it as been for me. It tends to come back to life after winter longer than other species of SAV I've seen. I got it to establish in one pond I tried it in but not the other. I think it got crowded out too fast by the curly leaf pond weed in the one. The other I think I did a good enough job of cleaning it off and had no curly leaf pond weed hitch hikers. I just poked my finger in about a half inch, and then stuck the plant's root down in and then covered with bottom sediment. I planted about 15 plants in an area about 6 foot square. From looking just the other day, it has filled in nicely and began to spread. I think I have found a wild source of it as well, so I may try harvesting more this summer to move to that pond also. If it is what I think it is, I will send a few samples to Bill for proper ID.

Thanks - i may need to order some. I am trying for wildlife habitat as the primary goal, but do like fishing.

It was very unpleasant planting the Corkscrew Eel Grass yesterday as the air temp was in the 50's and no sun. I wore a wet suit, booties and neoprene hat and I was still miserable. I planted in 3 feet of water in a soft mud bottom by pushing the plants in with one finger and squish the mud around it. So later on in the season I will report how the plants are doing. The established plants that will be competing with the Eelgrass are mostly Spatterdock, and some white, red and pink lilies. I had grass carp that really cleared out most of the submerged plants but the winter fish kill eliminated all my fish so I have no worry about fish eating the new plants.

This plant in the two pictures is starting to grow in a few places in my pond and I don't know what it is yet. I need to get another sample and look at it with a magnifying glass. Any ideas?