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Joined: May 2010
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Lunker
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Lunker
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So is the Georgia Giant nothing else but a CNBG x GSF?
At any rate the GG is still a HBG correct?
I am just wondering if the growth rate is possibe in that time frame, .5 inch to 4.5 inches in 6 weeks?
If so I can see why people like to stock these.
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent  Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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If you search here for "Georgia Giant" and go back a few years, you'll see why people don't like to stock them as well.
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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So is the Georgia Giant nothing else but a CNBG x GSF? -- no
It is a form (some type)of hybrid lepomis. The exact makeup is unknown to all except the developing hatchery.
I would call the place they came from and ask exactly what they sold you. After they answer I would ask if they sell Georgia Giants or know about them. It is possible that they have stumbled on a near Georgia Giant mix on their own.
If you want a put and take HBG pond that is a good use of HBG like fish. If you want a balanced LMB/BG type pond then add adult CNBG and fish out some of the existing hybrids.
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Joined: May 2010
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Lunker
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Lunker
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I will continue to post pictures on here as I will have many sorts of Hybrids since I have a nice GSF pond and plan to add som BG and CNBG if I can find them.
Who knows what I will have in a few years, I guess they will be so diluted that it may be hard to tell after the first few generations.
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Joined: Sep 2010
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Joined: Sep 2010
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The largest fish I stocked was 3/4 inch and that was the RES. All of the HCNBG were between 1/2" and 3/4". The one I have in the pic was the largest of 4 I caught. The other three were closer to the 3 1/2" size.
The hatchery told me that they simply were CNBG X GSF and that the retro reproduction has been primarily straight CNBG. He has them in all of his ponds and is very happy with the LMB sustainablity for forage. I guess this will ge a grow, fish, eat and see project.
Mook
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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the retro reproduction has been primarily straight CNBG. -- not sure I understand.
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Joined: Sep 2010
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Joined: Sep 2010
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The hatchery told me that the fish I bought would reproduce back to CNBG. Since he told me that they were a cross with GSF, I assumed that he meant more CNGB than GSF in the next generations.
Mook
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Hybrids can not through reproduction with their own produce offspring that go back (revert)to the original parentals (GSF or CNBG) genetics. Hybrid lepomis exhibit outbreeding depression in the F2 and subsequent generations. That is why all of the fisheries scientists I am aware of state that HBG offspring are not a good thing in a pond. All of the HBG pond plans I am aware of are based on the idea that the predator fish need to be able to eat all the HBG offspring and that over time it will be necessary to restock HBG. The idea is to put them in grow them to size and fish them out while the predators eat all the offspring. Below is a pic of an FX GG.  If there are enough pure CNBG stocked with HBG then over time the CNBG will out produce the HBG and leave you with a CNBG population. They will not be crosses(hybrids). CNBG produce lots of babies 30 to 50 thousand a year while HBG if they spawn successfully will have only a few (1000 +-) babies a year.
Last edited by ewest; 09/16/10 09:02 PM.
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Joined: May 2010
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Lunker
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Lunker
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Mook,
Did you say you were feeding your fish, if so what brand and size of food are you using?
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Joined: May 2010
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Joined: May 2010
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Hybrids can not through reproduction with their own produce offspring that go back (revert)to the original parentals (GSF or CNBG) genetics. Hybrid lepomis exhibit outbreeding depression in the F2 and subsequent generations. That is why all of the fisheries scientists I am aware of state that HBG offspring are not a good thing in a pond. All of the HBG pond plans I am aware of are based on the idea that the predator fish need to be able to eat all the HBG offspring and that over time it will be necessary to restock HBG. The idea is to put them in grow them to size and fish them out while the predators eat all the offspring. Below is a pic of an FX GG. If there are enough pure CNBG stocked with HBG then over time the CNBG will out produce the HBG and leave you with a CNBG population. They will not be crosses(hybrids). CNBG produce lots of babies 30 to 50 thousand a year while HBG if they spawn successfully will have only a few (1000 +-) babies a year. Are you sure about this? I was under the impression that hybrids did in fact play out into their parental phenotypes. When two hybrid bluegills breed, a percentage of the offspring will largely have a bluegill phenotype, and a percentage will have a green sunfish phenotype, I might be wrong, but this was my understanding. In fact I am fairly certain that I have witnessed it.
Last edited by brier; 09/19/10 12:22 AM.
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Joined: Sep 2010
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wow thats one ugly fish- I guess it would be a good bet in either case to get some straight CNBG as noted in a previous post.
The feed I am using is just the game-fish stuff I get from the feed/seed store and I actually switched over to the catfish food a couple weeks ago because it was cheaper.
Mook
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Joined: May 2010
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Lunker
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Lunker
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How much cheaper are we talking? Were you using the Purina Game Fish Chow before?
Just wondering, as I too was going to use the Catfish food but as you will hear from others on the site, it may have many extra ingredients that you may not want your fish to have.
At any rate more advice will be coming your way.
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Joined: Sep 2010
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Joined: Sep 2010
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Too funny - that is what I told my wife after she bought the catfish food - cheaper is rarely if ever- better. Yes it was Purina and yes I will be going back to it since after the last discussion with my wife she said that I was in charge of getting all the feed if I did not like what she got -sound familiar to anyone?
Mook
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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"Are you sure about this? I was under the impression that hybrids did in fact play out into their parental phenotypes. When two hybrid bluegills breed, a percentage of the offspring will largely have a bluegill phenotype, and a percentage will have a green sunfish phenotype, I might be wrong, but this was my understanding. In fact I am fairly certain that I have witnessed it." Take a look at this on outbreeding depression. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outbreeding_depressionOnce the GSF and BG genes are mixed in a HBG they can't revert to what their parents were genetically (at least not in a short time like a few years/lifetimes). HBG are 90% males +- and so there are not many females to spawn. Plus fecundity is very low. So the probability of an ongoing HBG population undoing the cross genetically through evolution/selection is exceedingly small. What I believe you are seeing is the result of outbreeding depression as noted in the link.
Last edited by ewest; 09/21/10 09:53 PM.
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Joined: May 2010
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Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: May 2010
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Don't even get me started on that boat as none of the women over here even understand why I am feeding fish, and wonder why I waste the money.  I bet the first time my wife hooks into a 1+ pound BG or a nice 3+ pound LMB that has been eating the fat BG she will change her mind.  Plus I tell them it is for the kids anyway and they love to fish, not to mention how much the like to eat it as well.
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 904 Likes: 12
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Apr 2002
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No matter what the theory states...I have not seen significant successful reproduction from hybrid bluegill.
Also IMO, the Georgia Giant is also just an overhyped hybrid bluegill. Maybe at one time they were special but now I understand them to be the result of the standard green sunfish/bluegill cross. Either way, they are not ideal for bass forage, they are more of a competitor!
I agree with the others, stock with significant numbers of mature coppernose bluegill before you even think about stocking bass.
Last edited by overtonfisheries; 09/24/10 01:10 PM.
It's ALL about the fish!
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