Forums36
Topics41,068
Posts559,161
Members18,570
|
Most Online3,612 Jan 10th, 2023
|
|
0 members (),
297
guests, and
598
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 27
|
OP
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 27 |
i have creeks in my area full of what i call creek minnows. my father and i used to net hundreds of them when i was a kid and use them for creek fishing because they were very tough on the hook. my question is would you recomend putting wild minnows like that in a new pond or is it recomended to go to my local fish farm and drop some cash for farm raised minnows. my pond doesnt have water yet and when its starting to hold water, i was going to get a good minnow population going before i put my crappies in.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,797 Likes: 14
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
|
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,797 Likes: 14 |
Can you take some good pictures of these minnows for our experts to ID? Could be creek chub which are fine in a pond, but won't reproduce in stillwater.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,135
Ambassador Lunker
|
Ambassador Lunker
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,135 |
river rat welcome to the PB Forum, normally I wouldn't recommend putting wild fish in your pond due to possible disease or not being able to identify the species, but you have to decide that.
I get trout from a stream on my property but my pond is also supplied water from the same stream and I haven't had any problems, also I get some fish from a Mt. lake nearby but there are no problems with this remote lake. If you can get your fatheads or golden shiners from a supplier it's probably a safer way to start your fish forage base.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099 Likes: 23
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
|
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099 Likes: 23 |
River Rat,
BUY your minnows and KEEP the receipt!!!!
In Missouri, if you can not prove you bought every species in your pond....your pond is considered "Waters of the State" (they will own it)
"Creek minnows", depending on the actual species, will not do well in ponds because they thrive in flowing water. You also take a huge risk of introducing parasites and pathogens that you will not risk by using Hatchery fish.
Feel free to contact me anytime, you may be pleasantly surprised how inexpensive stocking really is.....and you will have total control over what fish go into your pond.
EDIT: Your fish will be the least expensive investement in your pond, yet the entire point of building it in the first place. Is this really an area you want to skimp on?
Last edited by Rainman; 08/28/10 11:06 AM.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,801 Likes: 69
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent Lunker
|
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,801 Likes: 69 |
The River Rat - nice handle, welcome to the forum!
I agree with Rex on all his points 100%. Fish are one of the least expensive investments, but certainly not a place to skimp. A couple lbs of Fathead Minnows will reproduce so many times within 6 mos or a year as long as other fish aren't present - it's best to source these from a reputable hatchery in Missouri. You could probably get away with a $100-$200 investment in FHM. Add pallets along the shoreline to provide spawning habitat, and let them go crazy.
Do you have any photos of your place? We love photos!
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458 Likes: 2
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
|
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458 Likes: 2 |
For the stated goals in your other posts, there is no need to obtain any species other than those available from a fish farm. Stocking 5 pounds of fathead minnows and 5 pounds of golden shiners will be a great start for your pond.
I'd still love to see photos of these "creek minnows" though... I can at least attempt to ID them for you so you know what they are. Some species which are very suitable for ponds are not available from fish hatcheries. However, as others have already said, you run the risk of introducing disease, parasites and unwanted species. These risks are greatly reduced when you follow certain procedures in introducing fish from the wild to your pond or buy from a reputable fish hatchery.
Go with the fish farm bought fish and take Rex's advice, particularly since Missouri has such weird laws pertaining to private ponds and fish introduction.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 27
|
OP
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 27 |
thanks guys. im glad i asked that question because i was a little worried about the disease thing. i live in perry county and i know there have been a decline in fish numbers in our creeks for what ever reasons. disease may be one so why chance it.
i have access to some pallets. how ofter does a guy have to add more? as they rot will i have to put more back in?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 27
|
OP
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 27 |
cjbs it will be a while before i can get some pics of those minnows but i will some day for ya. i remember there were shinners but the majority were called somthing else that i cant remember right now. saining minnows was always fun as a kid. i just havnt done it in a long time.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,365
Lunker
|
Lunker
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,365 |
thanks guys. im glad i asked that question because i was a little worried about the disease thing. i live in perry county and i know there have been a decline in fish numbers in our creeks for what ever reasons. disease may be one so why chance it.
i have access to some pallets. how ofter does a guy have to add more? as they rot will i have to put more back in? If the creek, or any flowing ditches are real close to your pond, your pond fish will probably be exposed pretty quickly to any indigenous disease. Birds, turtles, mink, otter, and any other fish eating critter will eventually spread it. If there are no nearby creeks, your fish may go years without being exposed, maybe not in your lifetime. Pallets last many years. Mine are around 5, and still look the same.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,840
Lunker
|
Lunker
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,840 |
Many of the creeks around here have Gambusia, Black Strip Top Minnows, Red Horse Minnows, and others.
I had tried to start my pond off the right way as well, but unfortunately I did not check it one last time before stocking it, and it has a nice population of Green Sunfish.
I am now in the process of trying to thin them out which has been fun.
As many has mentioned buy from a trusted source.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,840
Lunker
|
Lunker
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,840 |
River Rat,
BUY your minnows and KEEP the receipt!!!!
In Missouri, if you can not prove you bought every species in your pond....your pond is considered "Waters of the State" (they will own it)
"Creek minnows", depending on the actual species, will not do well in ponds because they thrive in flowing water. You also take a huge risk of introducing parasites and pathogens that you will not risk by using Hatchery fish.
Feel free to contact me anytime, you may be pleasantly surprised how inexpensive stocking really is.....and you will have total control over what fish go into your pond.
EDIT: Your fish will be the least expensive investment in your pond, yet the entire point of building it in the first place. Is this really an area you want to skimp on? How would they know what fish are in your pond? Plus how would they have access to the BOW? This seems odd to me, has anyone ran into this issue and the state take theirs over? This may make a nice topic in its own.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099 Likes: 23
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
|
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099 Likes: 23 |
This pertains only to Missouri. It also pertains to many states that off er "free" pond stocking. The state can sample water's they "suspect MAY" have il;egally stocked species. It rarely happens, but can.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,676 Likes: 888
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
|
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,676 Likes: 888 |
Indiana used to be that way. The state offered "free" fish for pond stocking, but then your pond was no longer "private". With the budget cuts, they no longer offer the fish, so the law was changed.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099 Likes: 23
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
|
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099 Likes: 23 |
There happens to be a great article in the latest issue of Pond Boss Magazine about the "Ownership" of fish laws in different states.....the laws vary widely. Oddly enough in Arkansas, all fish are owned by the state, yet central Arkansas is the fish farming capital of the world!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458 Likes: 2
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
|
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458 Likes: 2 |
If you have a closed BOW of water, it still blows my mind how the fish in your closed BOW could be the property of the state... I can understand if you own a section of river where the fish have free access to come and go as they please. But a closed BOW like a pond or lake? Ridiculous!
Sort of like saying deer are the property of the state when they are free ranging. But if you put up a fence and buy deer legally to raise behind that fence, those deer still belong to the state.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,840
Lunker
|
Lunker
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,840 |
Yes the article is good, and I also found out that in Oklahoma all wildlife is considered property of the state.
And unless the pond owner has receipts and can prove the fish in the pond were purchased, the state length, bag or possession limits apply.
I completely disagree with this as I am sure many others due since it seems to be fairly typical to have a pond get overcrowded with LMB.
We all know that these need to be harvested but since it would be illegal to keep them all (since you did not purchase last years spawn), you have to throw them back.
I guess another option would be to toss them on the bank, but to me that seems like a waste when one could clean them for a meal.
Anyway that is my 2 cents.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 27
|
OP
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 27 |
well its funny we are talking about this ownership issue. i had attempted to pick a number from the County lottery system to have the state soil division pay for the construction of my pond. i tried about 3 times without sucess. Then i went on a elk hunt with a conservation agent friend of mine. we talked about all kinds of things on our 16hr trip, After a while i kind of realized that if i had the county/state assist me in funding my new pond project, they may be able to come back and put serious restrictions on the pond. looking back im really glad ive paid for all of it out of my pocket.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,135
Ambassador Lunker
|
Ambassador Lunker
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,135 |
I just moderated myself.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,615 Likes: 5
Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
|
Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,615 Likes: 5 |
I just moderated myself. If you don't stop you'll go blind.
JHAP ~~~~~~~~~~ "My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives." ...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,135
Ambassador Lunker
|
Ambassador Lunker
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,135 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,615 Likes: 5
Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
|
Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,615 Likes: 5 |
JHAP ~~~~~~~~~~ "My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives." ...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 27
|
OP
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 27 |
its official! the river rats pond is alive. i put 5lbs of fhm in it yesterday and they are doing good. lost about 8 or 10 so i figure that aint bad. i bought them from logans fish farm in southern illinois. anyone delt with them. they are only about 6 miles from my house as the crow flys but it took me an hour to get there. i got that little piece of water between us called the mississippi river. i was impressed by there operation. its big. and the folks were helpfull and plesant to deal with.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099 Likes: 23
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
|
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099 Likes: 23 |
I don't know much about Logan Hollow and that is usually good. Bad news travels REAL fast. Another great farm near you is Fountain Bluff in Gorham, ILL.
Did they provide you with the required health certification for fish coming from a Great Lakes state?
Last edited by Rainman; 10/03/10 09:02 AM.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 27
|
OP
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 27 |
no, is that a state law in IL?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099 Likes: 23
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
|
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099 Likes: 23 |
No, it's Federal. Here is an excerpt on some FAQ's from the USDA-APHIS....The regulations have become so overly burdonsome that they are often being ignored completely. This excerpt does not pertain to the bait fish persea...I haven't had enough cups of coffe to search for it yet....the regs are VERY broad and vague and IMO written to make full compliance impossible and allows for the gov to shut a person down at will. Complete text here.. Live Fish FAQ's Q. What conditions must be met under the Federal Order to move live VHS-susceptible species for purposes other than slaughter, research, or diagnostics? A. In order to move live VHS-susceptible species for purposes other than slaughter, research or, diagnostics, the fish must be transported with documentation from appropriate State, Tribal, or Federal authorities for aquatic animal health stating that the fish have tested negative for the VHS virus under existing national and international standards specified in the Federal Order. National standards for testing are detailed in the American Fisheries Society Suggested Procedures for the Detection and Identification of Certain Finfish and Shellfish Pathogens also referred to as the AFS Blue Book. The blue book is available online at www.fisheries.org/fhs. International standards for testing are included in the World Organization for Animal Health (OIE) Manual of Diagnostic Tests for Aquatic Animals, which is available online at www.oie.int/eng/normes/fmanual/A_00022.htm.Q. Does this mean that live fish can move interstate from the 8 States included in the Federal Order if they test negative for VHS? A. Live fish can move interstate if they test negative for VHS and are accompanied by documentation from the appropriate State, Tribal, or Federal authority for aquatic animal health. This documentation ensures that all testing is conducted in accordance with the Federal Order at an approved State, Tribal, or Federal laboratory.
Last edited by Rainman; 10/03/10 08:55 AM.
|
|
|
Moderated by Bill Cody, Bruce Condello, catmandoo, Chris Steelman, Dave Davidson1, esshup, ewest, FireIsHot, Omaha, Sunil, teehjaeh57
|
|