Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Renovating a Pond or Lake? Will tilapia clean up the muck without aeration?

I have a 1/2 acre pond that's maybe 50 years old that I'm trying to renovate. It's about 16 feet deep at the deepest spot. I have it almost drained and plan to stock it with CC in the Fall. The pond has about a foot of muck along the bottom. It's surrounded by trees so I'm assuming it's mostly (slowly) decomposing leaves. I'm thinking about using tilapia to clean up the muck (and for the other benefits they provide). Would they clean up the deep parts of the pond even if I don't aerate? (I'm thinking about aeration but haven't decided yet.)

Interesting question, Nathan, and one for which you may get varied answers. Tilapia are notorious eaters of just about anything in their path, I think. If there is limited other food available, they may well turn to the muck, as long as it's organic muck and not just mud/silt, for a food source. Some have mentioned on here being aware of tilapia consuming a large amount of bottom muck in ponds, so there is at least some anecdotal evidence of them doing so. Whether it's ever been documented is something I don't know, but somebody probably has an idea on that. Rainman would be one of the best to answer this question, so just hang on until he sees your post. Again, though, I would have to guess that muck would be a sort of last option provided that there were no other sources of preferred food available first.

Apparently tilapia will eat muck, as long as it is decomposing plant matter with aerobic bacteria doing their thing.

My hypothesis is that you need to get both tilapia and oxygen into contact with that muck. That'll be a trick without aeration, because most ponds stratify so that only the top 4-8 feet contain adequate oxygen.

Why not hold off on stocking CC this fall, and instead stock Tilapia next May? Tilapia will reproduce like crazy in the absence of predators, and probably be OK with temperatures in the pond from April to November. You'll be able to slowly draw down the pond over the course of next year, perhaps using siphoning every week or two so that the pond falls at a steady rate of roughly two feet per month. This will put all of the pond into contact with both oxygen and tilapia. Once the pond has been at about four feet for a few weeks, you could probably go ahead and catch as many tilapia as possible to remove organic matter.

More experienced folks, would this work?

Tilapia love eating bacteria aerobic AND anarobic. Tilapia will bring the oxygen to the detritus by rapidly swimming/swarming an area they wish to eat at. The combination of the tilapia circulating oxygenated water and browsing and exposing new substrates, aerobic bateria colonies will form and flourish....vastly speeding the decay prcess Aeration will most assuredly speed the decay process also.

Nathan, the tilapia will browse on detritus looking for the bacteria growing on it. The amount of muck they will eat will depend on what other foods are available and the numbers stocked. To get very noticable muck reduction, plan with predtors present, plan to stock 100#/acre or more. Personally, I would add aeration since the long term costs and benefits will be better on a budget.

Rainman, would CC work as a predator for Tilapia? And can you explain why they work better with Predators. Do only the larger sized Tilapia eat the bacteria? Or maybe only the big ones can move enough water to make any difference. Just wondering.

I'm sure CC could control tilapia recruitment in the right stocking combinations. I have no idea what that would be however as tilapia are somewhat predatory as well.

Larger tilapia can move a lot of water when they want to. Smaller ones will school together to accomplish the water movements.

I can't refer you to any study on this, it comes from personal observation.

So when you are talking pounds how many fish is that and what size are they.

This may actually be an option for our pond that is so shallow, I have a feeling it has a ton of muck on the bottom since now one would build a fishable pond only 5 feet deep.

Also would pounds change if the pond is free of predators?

Just trying to determine how many pounds or fish I would need for this 1/2 acre pond, and also how many for our other 1/4 acre ponds?

Thanks

When I sell adult tilapia, It can be from <1 to 15 fish per pound because I don't grade the fish. Fry can be as many as 3500/lb.

Stocking rates will change based on many factors....there are no blanket rates for a pond. I wish I could give you an answer, but the parameters and goals are simply too vague and keep changing.

Thanks for the very helpful info, Rainman. So if the schools of smaller tilapia will get rid of the muck why do I need a predator? I have no experience with tilapia and am very new to pond management in general. Sorry if my question is too basic.

Nathen, if your goal is to reduce the detritus, do not use predators with the tilapia. Plan on cleaning up a ton or more of dead fish in the cool weather though without predators being in the pond.

I was simply answering your question to me as to if a CC could be a predator of tilapia.

With predators, more tilapia will need to be stocked to meet the same detritus goals, but few dead fish will need to be cleaned up in the late fall.

If for some reason you can not get to the pond site to clean up the dead fish what are the issues they would cause besides the strong odor?

I think you'd end up with some serious nastification of your water at a minimum. Plus you could have lots of vermin hanging around and working the dead carcasses, and maybe end up with undesirable creatures living in the area in hopes of more stuff to eat. It just seems pretty obvious that you wouldn't want this set of circumstances to exist.

I was just wondering since it would only be used during the grow season and then have the cold season to sit until the next year.

I guess one could through in a few LMB one the first spawn are two take place to help keep the numbers in check and then move the bass to another pond when you drain it down to take out the Tilapia.

Thanks

No more damage to the water than any other decaying matter in a pond. Other than sanitation/odor, the main reason USUALLY for removing dead tilapia would to prevent the nutrients they've removed from being available to problem plants/FA again. Tilapia raised as a food fish would not be for plant control or as a forage.

MRHELLO, there are a couple good studies by the food fish industry on LMB/Tilapia and CC/tilapia polyculture.

I was just going to put them in this pond because I do not think anything else will make it, plus they may clean it up pretty good, as I read a post where one of your clients gained depth.

I figure if they grew large enough to eat we would try them. But I am sure if you want them for food it would be better to feed them.

Would you also mind answering my last few questions on my post #226357?


Thanks

I don't see a post numbered 226357 in this thread. How do I search to find it?

It is in another thread....Tilapia pond without predators. Google Search... #226357 site:pondboss.com/forums

I just re-read it and I was under the impression that every question that could be answered, was, or suggestions offered.

Is nastification a word or it it a lawyer term?

I wonder how Blues and Mozambiques would react together in a pond environment and do you know if there is a name for their hybrid?


Do you happen to know how large the Mozambique will get in a 6 month period, I have read these are one of the smallest Tilapia and take long to reach a large enough size to harvest?

IIRC, Moz grow at about 2/3 the rate of Blue or Nile tilapia.

Some of the Texans here should know what the growth rates are in pond enviornments, but since both species are maternal mouth brooders, they will interbreed. I don't deal with hybrids, so I don't know if there is a slang name for crosses.

Wondered if anyone would pick up on that! It's my word. I made it up and I own it, but I grant free license to any who may be interested in using it! You like it, don't you?

That's just egregious!

So it sounds like the Moz would be a better fit just for forage base, and maybe a little algae removal.


Niles may be a good option if I do not need them to spawn before I pull them out but may have to stock more, and not sure if they care to even eat algae.


Where Blues would eat the most algae and other muck out of the 3 options and grow to a harvestable size assuming I can catch them, before they die. (if put in a pond with predators they would be forage as well) In turn giving me the most bang for my buck!!!


Am I way off base here?

I think you are pretty close depending on your goals.

Thank you!