Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Stickleback and Fatheads as food source.

I'm planning on stocking my 1/4 acre pond with 100-150 BG, and 15-20 LMB.

I currently have alot of Stickleback and Fathead minnows, that have survived and florished for many years.

Will they be a suitable enough food for the BG and LMB, or should I think about additional stocking of another minnow?

I'd add more, Jeff. There's always a good discussion about forage base, but one fish that seems to be commonly viewed as generally very desirable is the golden shiner (GSH) because it grows to a larger size which means better forage for a big bass, but also gets big enough to avoid predation at some levels, which helps to establish regular recruitment so you always have forage in the pond. Put them in far enough in advance to get them growing and reproducing before you add your predator fish.

Thanks for the info Todd.

I wonder if I could pick those up at a bait store, or if I'm spose to have a permit for them, too?

I would suggest to get them from a fish farm. Bait shop fish are generally not handled all that well and you could end up with a lot of mortalities. A fish farm would know if one needed a stocking permit, or you could check with your DNR.

Jeff, I agree with JKB - buy them through a fish farm definitely. They are available at a lot of bait shops, but as he said, the quality of the fish and the quality of their handling is much lower since they are destined to die in the stomachs of bass and others shortly after you buy them. Lots of places will ship them to you and you may have a good fish farm in your vicinity that would deliver or where you could pick them up. You can possibly also get some on fish days at your local farm store if you check with the stores in advance to find out when their days are scheduled.

I heard these will get large enough to compete with other fish and eat small fry.

Is this true, and if so is it worth the gamble so you have forage base?

Thanks

I really don't think there's any gamble with GSH - they are a staple of many ponds and many of the ponds owned by the folks on this forum. They seem to fill a lot of niches in the food chain and you need to let them get established prior to adding your top predators because they'll rip through the smaller fish in no time flat, I suspect. You need the larger ones to ensure an ongoing population, but as long as you've got predators, I don't know that the forage would be likely to get to the point it was causing a problem. And I don't see that there's any way they'd out compete a LMB or BG or other predator fish.

Hopefully some other folks - actually educated and/or knowledgeable about this question - will weigh in to give you some further assurance. I'm truly a novice and my advice is worth the paper it's written on (and you'll notice it's not actually written on paper, so you have a pretty good sense of the value I ascribe to my thoughts!), so be sure you're comfortable with the direction you take before relying on me!

GSH do compete directly with BG for food. Although the niche that BG and GSH have isn't the same, there is substantial overlap between the food that adult GSH feed on and what BG feed on.

Food Habits:
GSH-Invertivore/herbivore; particulate feeder; midwater and surface feeder (Simon 1999). Main foods: Cladocera 90% by volume, flying insects 20%, chironomid pupae 30%, and filamentous algae (Keast and Webb 1966). Consume zooplankton, restricted to about 1 m below the surface, during the lowlight hours after sunset and just before sunrise (Hall et al 1979). Will filter feed on smaller zooplankton, which may be beneficial when larger zooplankton are less abundant, or light level precludes capture of larger zooplankton (Ehlinger 1989).

BG-Larvae and juveniles of 5-10 mm in length frequently ingest Cladocerans and copepod nauplii (Werner 1969; Beard 1982). Individuals reaching 20 mm have varied feeding habits, primarily consuming Cladocera (Chydorinae) and adult copepods and insects (mainly chironomids; Beard 1982). The primary diet of adults in various water bodies is comprised of aquatic insects, crayfish, and small fish, although zooplankton serves as the main food item in other bodies of water (Mittelbach 1984; Carlander 1977). This species also ingests aquatic vegetation including algae (Carlander 1977; Sublette et al. 1990). Based on the following data, Goldstein and Simon (1999) list first and second level trophic classifications as invertivore and drift; trophic mode listed as water column/surface: In Canada, populations primarily consumed insects, crustaceans, and plant material, with 50% of food volume consisting of chironomid larvae (Keast and Webb 1966); in late summer, when insects were not as abundant, 22% of diet was plant material (Moffett and Hunt 1943; Goldstein and Simon 1999). The fish louse, Argulus, has been found in bluegill stomachs, suggesting individuals may perform �cleaning� function on infected fish (Carlander 1977).

To some the fancy words may be hard to understand, but what you can take from that is there is substantial overlap between the food sources of BG and GSH. How much GSH affect BG growth rates is debatable.

In ponds with a reasonable LMB population, I have never seen a GSH population get out of control for extended periods of time. These ponds have ranged in size from 0.1 acres to 8 acres in size. Often, the original stocking of a pond will lead to GSH being a problem as the first GSH stocked have high numbers reaching 6"+ due to a lack of initial LMB predation. All the LMB first stocked are too small to feed on the original stocker GSH. After that original batch of GSH die of old age, usually around 5 years, subsequent generations see far fewer individuals reaching such large sizes as most fish are removed by the now larger LMB who are able to prey on GSH of all sizes up to all but the largest of adults. The few GSH that do reach the large 6"+ size do not cause nearly the issues as that first generation stocked. There just aren't many of them to cause issues.

The following is my opinion based on my experience and research. Take it for what it is worth!

If your goal is to grow trophy sunfish, leave the GSH out of your pond. There is no need or benefit for GSH in a trophy sunfish pond. GSH will compete directly with your sunfish for food and take predation pressure off of them. Meaning less food to go around and more mouths surviving to eat it.

If your goal is a balanced pond the stocking of GSH is acceptable. However, original stocking numbers should be limited to 2 pounds or less per acre of typical 2"-4" sized GSH. In balanced ponds, I personally like to start off with small numbers of large adult GSH. Usually around 20-30 GSH per acre in the 6"-8" size range. This prevents the stock piling of numerous large adults. Those initial 20-30 have high survival rates as the bass are too small at initial stocking to feed on them. They spawn, but their YOY aren't too large to be fed on by the initial bass stockings. So that initial super generation where large numbers of GSH reach 6"+ in size doesn't occur. Finding 6"+ GSH is the trick.

In trophy bass ponds, I like to stock 5-10 pound per acre of GSH leaning more towards 10 pounds in areas where TFS are not an option. In areas where TFS are an option I lean more towards 5 pounds per acre. I am a big fan or forage diversity. Although I think TFS are a better bass forage, I still like to have GSH available as a prey species for bass in ponds with TFS. In northern ponds where TFS aren't an option, GSH are typically the only species capable of reaching sizes in excess of 5" that are fusiform and not spiny minus which can successfully spawn in ponds except for perhaps LCS which require very specific pond conditions, GS which can be stocked once a pond has a large percentage of 16"-18"+ bass in it and goldfish which IMO are a poor choice as a forage fish in most circumstances.

Will HBG, Coppernose, Crappie, and CC feed on the Shinner spawn as well?

Great post, as usual, Travis!

See fishbase for your answers!