Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Whats killing my browns but not the bows or brooks

Thanks guys! I see both the PSP 300 and the WIN 100 listed on e-bay, and I'm wondering if there is a difference between the 2. The thermostat will be inside an unheated stable, and the compressor plugged into it.

esshup I got mine from amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/WIN100-Heating-Coo...4499&sr=8-1

Alright guys....I was down at the pond pondering (no pun intended) about what may have happened....There is one other thing that I changed last week and I didn't even think of it untill now because well...it didn't seem like that big of a deal to me.

Last Wed (the day before the change of diffusers)I started using sinking food instead of floating. My local store where I get all my pond supplied said that in the warmer seasons the trout will use alot more energy jumping and splashing eating the floating food. He also said that once the real hot summer temps come to quit feeding all together (which I did last year).

So here is my question for you guys...When I fed the floating food I never once saw one brown trout surface to take the food and I had 6 brookies and 1 brown for 2 months in the cage mentioned above and never once saw that brown come to the surface either where the brooks went nuts both in the pond and the cage as well as the rainbows in the pond.

Also a few times after feeding I would toss a few lures and never once cought a rainbow or brookie but on quite a few ocasions cought the browns.

Is it possible that the browns started to gorge them selves when I swaped over to the sinking food? All of the ones I pulled out looked like they had full bellys and the one up at the surface I pulled out that later died in the cage also had a very full belly.

I pulled out two more dead browns this afternoon and am going to switch back to floating food just to see what happens. This is the only thing I can possibly think of other than what Cecil said that is the reason only the browns are being effected...Is this possible???

Thanks...Ryan

That's a real stumper, alot of floating feed will eventually sink unless the rainbows and brookies were getting it all before it did. If the feed were bad then you would also have a problem with all the trout, it's a mystery, maybe you should stop feeding for a few days and see what happens.

I guess I am just overly cautious with this device. Being an engineer, and versed in NEC Code, and this only being IP20 rated. I can only think of my four year old niece, if it were outside, regardless of what you cobbled up for protection!

If that is bad, then, tell me what is Good! I would like to hear it!

Why don't you cut one of them open and see what's in the stomach?

JKB, the thermostat is on a GFI circuit, nothing is foolproof but I feel that is adequate protection, and I would not have my 7 year old grandson near the pond without adult supervision.

JKB,

Safety concerns are always a good point to bring up!!!

JKB, point well taken! The circuit that it'll be on is GFI protected. I don't know what else there is that I can do. There aren't any little ones running around here, unless something is going on while I'm not home. If that's the case, then the electric is the least of my worries!

I'm curious to see what's going on with the Browns as well. I noticed that the trout are feeding less now that the pond raised 3' in depth, and the water is browner from the tannic acid in the leaves. I'll take water temps tomorrow morning, but I think the pond will be heating up quick. They are predicting temps in the upper 80's to 90� all week long. The FA has durn near doubled in amount in two days.

I have a feeling that this summer will test the 90� operating range of the thermostat!

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Why don't you cut one of them open and see what's in the stomach?[/quote]

I mentioned above that I did that and all I really saw was just a bunch of brown goe

I mentioned above that I did that and all I really saw was just a bunch of brown goe

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That'd most likely be pellets.

Goe sounds like something that has to be watched. Be careful!

Sorry about that - must not have remembered that you mentioned it. Esshup is probably right that it's leftover pellets, so sounds like they were feeding okay. Interesting, though disappointing, mystery. Hope you get it nailed down so you can avoid future problems. Lots of great food for thought floating around for you in this thread so far.

I ran home for lunch today and FedEx had dropped off the thermostat. It's the PSP300. Thanks guys!!

Let's be particularly careful out there.

Update- Good and bad news! Cecil was right...it would stop as fast as it started! The day after my last post, I no longer found a brown floating and in the past few days they have started biting again and we pulled out 4 today and released them all....thats the good news

The water temps are up to the mid 70's on the surface/68 16' down on the bottom and my brookies are now dying. The past 2 weeks have been hotter than ever here in Ontario and are breaking 50+ year old temperature records. On sunday we fished out a bunch including a bunch of rainbows. Monday and tuesday there where about 10-20 floaters and had no luck catching any....you could see them swimming in schools last night just before dark just crusing the shallow's. This morning I had my father bring over his 12' siene net. In about 2 hours we pulled out over 80 including a few of last years stocked rainbow. Average brookie size was 15" with some being almost 18".....not bad for putting them in last september and them being 10-12". We landed up butter flying all of them and freezing them and they will be going into the new Bradley Smoker in a few weeks....Yummy!!!

I was pretty upset they where dying...so early anyway but these past two weeks where hotter than anytime last summer.

I have decieded that I am no longer going to focus on trout in the pond but will continue to stock Brookies this fall and pull them out mid april for table fair thru the rest of the year. If the remaining brown make it thru the summer I will probably also stock a few more just to have a fiesty game fish in the pond.

I am now considering changing plans for the pond and am thinking about focusing on Walley, Perch and BG. My BG and jumbo perch in the pond are currently doing great and we pulled out a 12+inch perch today with the net...released it of course! All three species mentioned above are not every common in ponds here in Ontario...especially BG so it will be a bit different than everyone else with there LMB ponds and I shouldn't have to worry about high water temps.

Ryan

Ryan:

I had 83�F surface temps last week, with the water at 8' depth 67�F-68�F. I'm running the aerator at night, when the air temps are below 70�F. So far the trout are doing well. There is a high water table tho, and with a sandy pond bottom/sides I think I have a lot of groundwater flow thru the pond, keeping the pond lower water levels cool. It'll be interesting to see if I can get them to over-summer!

I'm really amazed at how fast they grow when they are fed good food! Mine are showing the same growth rates as your trout, but mine are RBT/Golden morphs.

Scot,

Trout have been selectively bred for faster growth for over 100 years so it is amazing but not surprising. Wouldn't it be awesome if we could grow other species at 1 inch per month through most of their lifespan? Actually domestically we are slowly getting there but it's going to take some time. As you may have seen on this board there is now a strain of perch in Ohio that grow significantly faster than other strains. I hope to get some of them for broodstock in a year or two.

I had two year old brook trout to just over 19 inches before I took them out. I wish I would have kept them for another year. I jumped the gun, and in retrospect I realize it was normal spawning stress that was causing some morbidity and mortality, so I should have well enough left alone. If I do this again I will plant about 30 percent more than I plan on harvesting. No good sources for brooks now except for the Indians at Red Cliff with Nelksi out of the running for at least two years.

Good luck with the trout Scot. I hope you pull it off.

Cecil,

What happened at John's place? Did he test positive for something?, and at both facilities?

John had a postive for IPN in his fingerling brown trout in the hatching building. He thinks it's a false positive as he doesn't bring in trout from any other sources and in all the years he's been there he's never tested positive. Even though he destroyed all the fish in the hatching building and sterilized it, he has to show he is clear of the virus for two or three years to sell trout again. I wasn't clear on whether he would retest immediately as the testing is very expensive.

Never mind IPN positive salmonids are common in Great Lakes and other trout, although it doesn't necessarily have any effect on them. My state has been known to plant IPN positive steelhead, and it wouldn't surprise me if other Great Lakes state do so also. I guess if you make the rules and enforce them you can do whatever you want.

Sorry to hear that Cecil. I have never met John, but I talked with him on the phone.

I am not sure what the current regulations are for testing. It use to be mandatory, once per year. I also heard that the "powers that be" wanted to make testing mandatory on a quarterly basis. Not sure if that one got through.

If you need brookies or browns, call Dan Vogler at Harrietta Hills, He would have some quality fish. If you did not want to drive that far, I am sure he would source some for you. The guy's and gal's in the MAA stick together.

One thing I am not sure of, is who will sell for export. IIRC, that has been an issue since the world was coming to an end -via- VHS. That turned out to be somewhat of a dud, but now we have more regulations and red tape.

JKB,

I know Dan well as I used to be an active member of MAA. But as you eluded to just because one has healthy fish doesn't mean they test for planting in public waters or interstate transport. It's so ridiciously expensive many don't bother to even pursue that market. As far as I'm concerned if the state or feds require testing they should pay for it instead of impeding commerce.

As far as I know Dan only raises trout for the food market but I could be wrong. I wasn't aware he had anything besides rainbows either.

Hey did you hear the latest study by a university from New York where they tested fish at various ports on the Great Lakes regarding VHS? Basically they're saying VHS may have been here for decades! I can post the email on it here if you're interested.

I was just in Harrietta Hill's website. They have bow's, brooks and browns. Plus other gamefish like LMB, WE, HBG, etc..., but they only sell to MI customers.

I read something a while back by some Canadian researchers that basically stated that VHS has been in the Great Lakes for decades also. IIRC, I think you posted that email a while back.