Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations blown away

Oh man talk about leaving us hanging!!! Ok you got my attention and I am ready to learn, learn, learn!

probably neither bob. there's a little trick i use to make sure my fish look their absolute best for their photo sessions. it does not harm the fish either. actually it probably keeps them from harm. with me in the picture, there's plenty of ugly already. so i have to make sure the bass look pretty.

kinda rushed right now. lunch at school with my little one in 15 mins. back later hopefully. sorry.

jignpig my hero when my pond grows up I want it to be just like jignpigs

Gorgeous fish!

thanks so much again guys. the reception has been overwhelming. y'all's passion, enthusiasm and eagerness to learn has brought back some fond memories. it has taken me back to those days when i first began my own management journey - all the questions, all the uncertainty, all the possibilities, and all the dreams. thank you so much for taking me back to that special place. for those who have asked, how could i not share with y'all after such a warm welcome? i will try my best to explain the way i have done things from beginning to end while reserving the right to possibly hold on to one or two little "secrets". but i absolutely promise that the things i don't share, if any, will not hinder you whatsoever from being able to achieve results equal to or greater than my small successes. the reason i might hold something back is to encourage you to experiment, learn for yourself, and blaze your own trail with that particular item. it is entirely possible, even probable, that some of the ideas and methods you generate will far outshine mine. in fact, i hope that happens.

but please understand that i consider myself much more of a student than a teacher. my modest success has come through the school of hard knocks. i assumed nothing to be right, took nothing for granted. i studied conventional wisdom and asked "why?" if it did not make practical sense to me, i discarded it.

all i ask of y'all as i try to explain my process and rationale, is that when in doubt you please defer to mr. lusk. as far as i can tell, his wisdom and information is bulletproof. so much of what i have done is based on his information and i am indebted to him for much.

with that out of the way, before i did anything, i started with a dream and a notebook. in my opinion, regardless of where you currently are in your management plan, you should too. this notebook will serve 2 VERY important purposes. no matter what you have done to this point, if a notebook has not been part of your plan, please at least consider calling this "day one". if you are still on board, i'll give you some time to find a notebook.

and thanks again. i feel like i am among friends already.

I recommend that you hold fire and contact Bob Lusk in a private message to discuss the possibility of an interesting article for the magazine. The rest of the forum will hate me...then you...until it is published, but that's my world anyway.

me write an article for a magazine? that's flattering but also kinda funny. i appreciate that vote of confidence. i hope after i've shared a few things here, you don't feel like it was misplaced. really, i don't mind sharing at all. i don't want anyone to think that i came over here with any motivations other than learning, communicating with like minded folks, and hopefully making some friends.

really, i should have been more specific about the notebook. it doesn't have to be an actual notebook. this can be done on computer. or both. the only problem with a computer is that it's hard take it down to the pond with you.

while my notebook was misplaced a while back, i do remember that the first thing i did was write down specific goals that i wanted for the water i was managing. very little is accomplished in pond management or life without making plans and decisions in the direction you want to go. some suggestions on goals. they need to be simple. they need to be realistic. they need to focus on the big picture. they need to be time limited (i.e. "i want to accomplish ______________________ within "X" amount of time.") they need to be limited to what you REALLY want rather than trying to become too cluttered and do too much. that is a sure path to frustration.

in my opinion, each goal should have it's own set of plans or objectives. these differ from the goal itself in that these are the short term measures needed to accomplish the goal over the long term. it's what you think you need to do to make the goal happen. objectives in my opininion should be specified in terms of what you plan to do on a monthly, weekly, or even daily basis to accomplish the big picture goal.

wheras goals probably will not change much, the objectives necessary to accomplish them may need to be refined or even overhauled from time to time based on how effective they seem to be.

the next thing i would suggest after listing goals and objectives, is to go ahead and boldly state your dream. this is where you get to completely forget about what seems to be "within reason", throw caution to the wind, and shoot for the moon. who knows? one day it just might happen. and there's not much in this world that feels better than one day realizing that your dream actually did come true.

your notebook will also be a good way to make immediate note of any observations or ideas you have "on the spot" while at your honey hole rather than trying to depend on memory later on.

i realize that this is very simplistic and elemetary way to kick things off. i realize that many of you might have done this already. for those who haven't, it might be worth a shot. having these things in writing and reviewing them from time to time is a great way to stay focused. it's a constant reminder of your original visison for your pond. it helps you keep you accountable and true to yourself.

but this notebook will also serve another very important purpose. more on that later.

and i will go ahead and apologize for the strategic breaks. not really trying to build any drama. it's just that i don't type very well and i need a break from time to time. hope y'all will forgive that.

Forgiven. I have my notebook in hand!

Thanks so much for this jignpig. Keep adding on to this please. Good stuff.

Dang, i feel so out of place asking this in the midst of a bass extravaganza. it's my Mississippi mud roots.

Tell us the story about how you landed that catfish with the untralite and 4# line, or even 15# braid?

sure. 2 words: very carefully. seriously though, the first pic kinda has a story behind it. although i don't guess it was really a bet, some friends said that they didn't think i could catch a bass over 7 pounds on 6 pound test. i told 'em not only would i do it, i'd do it within a week. and i did. if you click on the sig link you will see in the third row down me holding up a nice bass (7-1). this was one of my project fish from my early "old school" management days. you will see i am wearing the same shirt and holding up the same little ultralight pole. after catching the bass, i went ahead and caught the catfish (also one of my project fish) on 6 pound test just to show 'em the bass wasn't a fluke.

as far as the second pic goes, my daughter caught that one. it was just too big and scary for her to hold though so dad had to hold it for the pic. that one she also caught on light spinning tackle although i forgot exactly what type of line. i think it was braid, but i'm not sure how big. to this day she brags about that fish. she is so proud. the few seconds it takes her to tell the story makes every penny and every hour i ever spent on the pond worthwhile.

the fact that landing big fish on ultralight tackle is feasible in this pond is attributable to one of my cornerstone principles - rethink cover. i hate brushpiles and wood cover in a pond. there's many reasons why. the fact that it is a hazzard during a battle with a big fish is just one of them. i believe that folks who choose to throw brushpiles in their ponds or have fallen timber in them are shooting themselves in the foot when it comes to bass growth as well (for several reasons). but that's another story for another time.............

until then, since we're talkin' pictures, here's another couple of my project fish. sadly the first one was gut hooked and died a few months after this pic was taken. notice the size of her head in proportion to the size of her body. all the potential in the world at such a young age. what a loss. oh well, it's a blood sport. it happens. fortunately there are more coming up behind her. the second is another nice one from last fall. although i don't remember whether i weighed it or not, she's 8 if she's an ounce. another fat and thick one.

thanks for asking about the catfish. that brought back some cool memories.

jignpig how big are the ponds you are working with here? and how deep? and are they aerated?

one pond. about 2 acres. max depth is probably 9 ft. no aeration.

This is what makes this form so great. We get information on other pond owners’ success and notes on where we went wrong. The open shared information by both professionals and dummies like me. Pignjig keep sharing. I too think and article on you success should be in the magazine
notebook in hand

Hey Jig,

So if your one pond is almost 2 acres and your pulling those kind of fish out of it. Is it possible then ( given that I do everything right) that I could get 4 or 5 pounders out of my 1 acre pond? I am not looking for HUGH bass but would like some nice ones. Right now all I got are 8 to 14 inchers. I put 10 lbs of FHM's in it 2 weeks ago and 50 adult CNB. I am hopeing my bass will start to grow more. I have only had my pond since last May and it had not been managed for years accourding to the neighbors.

Don't sell yourself short Jignpig (you screen name cracks me up) you have an eloquent way of telling your story that draws the reader in. Heck with all you've written in this post you have the majority of a Pond Boss article already.

Very interesting discussion about your notebook. One of the first questions that the experts ask a pond owner prior to giving advice is "what are your goals for the pond." You have gone a step farther than most (or at least me) by actually writing down the goals, sort of a pond mission statement. Very cool idea.

Write on, we're reading....

jignpig, I am curious about some of the details. Are these bass pure FL genetics, F1's Fx's or northerns? Besides LMB and CC, what other species do you have in your pond? Do you fertilize your pond or rely on natural fertility? It sounds like you catch some of these fish multiple times as you seem to almost have them named. I know that feeling! You really start to know your bass in a smaller sized pond.

Again I have the same set up. Almost zero brush piles, stumps or heavy line snapping forage cover. And I use either 6-8 lb test with ultra lite tackle. At first I was too ultra lite and did not have enough backbone in the poles to get good hook sets. I have landed a 8 lb lmb and a 11 lb albino cc on that 6 lb test. My 4 year old son still brags about how he caught 8 fish, and he caught them in less than half an hour with the largest being 4 1/2. After that one he said "Daddy, my arms are tired."
With that lite line my drags has to be set just right. When they rip it out cutting through the bottom weeds it looks like a weedeater.

A few months back I told people the same thing here. Keep a journal for every pond. I did not mention goals though. That is a great thought, to keep your eye on the prize. I guess those goals are in my half empty head. But that is where I think our goals differ. I want as many 2-3 lb lmb as I can stack in a 6 acre pond. When I hook one, I have 4 or 5 more following that one in. I had a 60 c and r day last season. My duck hunting buddy visited I told him I would have a lmb for his daughter in less than 10 seconds. One, two, bam, a nice 2 lb his golden lab attacked while landing. He had a few minutes and i said let's give it a try. in the middle of July in mid day summer heat we had them swarming around the boat. Bigger one watching the small ones getting caught. He nailed a 5 lb in less than 15 minutes.

However I started this pond from a disaster, fish were opposite of yours, all head and tail, nothing in between. I am not gunning for lunkers, but your fat small guys amaze me. That is my goal. I just have too many fish. The best part of all your stories are with your daughter. I can't put a price on my fishing time with my kids. Maybe I can fatten my bass up, maybe not, but thanks for sharing your story.

sorry guys. not much time tonight. big fishin' trip tomorrow on the river. but i will answer questions the best i can to get caught up.



rc, it is possible,even probable, that even if you do some things WRONG you can and should get 4 and 5 pound bass if you want them. how quickly it happens is basically up to you. our growing seasons should be almost the same. i have made plenty of mistakes and still produced some real dolls. no one is going to do EVERYTHING right. don't put that kind of pressure on yourself. big bass don't need their pond boss to be perfect, they just need him to be dedicated. without jacking your hopes up unrealistically, i'm gonna go ahead and say that if your pond is adequately healthy, there's not a reason in the world you couldn't produce 6 and 7 pounders eventually. maybe sooner rather than later depending upon your level of committment. and the holy grail, a 10, is not out of the question. right or wrong, i have always broken it down into some fairly simple math, kinda like making change. and this has served me fairly well. depending on several factors, for "x" amount of habitat and forage, you can have 10 1 pounders, 5 2 pounders, 2 5 pounders, or one 10 pounder. you have to choose. you cannot exceed the carrying capacity of your water. but yeah, 4's and 5's are very realistic.



cjb, none of the bass i'm working with have any sort of fancy pedigree. regular old northern strain fish. what i call "mutt" bass. no ferilization. that's never been a need for me. not a big fan of fertilization unless it absolutely HAS to be done for some reason or another. the previous owner fertilized the pond regularly, and "my" bass are far bigger than his ever were. fertilization, at least what i've seen done, stains the water. the pond i work with is very clear at times (river mussels). this enables me to get a much better view and idea of what is going on under the surface. and then there's this. bass hunt primarily by sight. common sense dictates to me that clearer water increases hunting success and efficiency. increased efficiency and success translates into quicker, easier, and more frequent meals. and that translates into fatter, healthier, faster growing bass. now don't get me wrong. i'm not knocking guys who fertilize. it's just not the path i've chosen to take because i happen to prefer clean, clear, pretty water in the pond. now if you are interested in the whole "food chain" thing from bottom to top, then yeah, fertilization is not a bad idea. that said though, my food chain seems to be doing fine without it. and that brings me to your next question - other species. besides bass and catfish (i don't know all these abbreviations yet, but i'm working on it) i have bluegill, shellcrackers, and green sunfish. i dump a load of minnows (small shiners or tuffies) in there from time to time. but i doubt those survive very long. besides the few channel catfish and some big gills and redears, every fish is in that pond for one purpose only - to become a meal for a bass. and you are right about catching them several times. in any pond that's gonna be the case unless it's several acres big. "getting to know your bass" is a good way to say it, but it goes much farther and deeper than that with me. what i do could be considered pond "micromanagement" of the highest level i suppose. i know that word has a bad sound to it for many pond managers. but my way is not tedious, boring, or time consuming at all, at least not to me. to the contrary, i think it is quite fun. and it provides me with the critical information i need to make smart decisions about my bass, and the pond itself. and that's the other reason for the notebook. but that discussion will have to wait. i have to get up early.

frog, it sounds like you are right on track buddy. and it sounds like you have created a fishing paradise out of almost nothing. that has to make you feel good. sounds like you are making your goals a reality, which are in their own way much harder to acheive than the goals i have. you obviously have to sustain a massive population and it sounds like you are doing exactly that. props and congrats. and totally right about the times with the kids being the best part.

later y'all.

Truly impression to grow that many bass close to and exceeding 10 pounds with no fertilization, northern only LMB and no shad or shiners in only a 2 acre pond. Do you keep the LMB numbers extremely low in the pond?

Since my best pond is owned by a HOA in a gated community I have some constraints. The water must be pretty, and fairly clear. And yes, you can see everything that is going on. Yes the LMB sight feed, and every single fish in there is in some way supporting the lmb diet. I am blessed with fla strain, which seem to live a little longer than the northern guys. Downside is they are really off in cold temps. I don't fertilize, don't have to, and have an incredible plankton bloom. Close to zero algae, no muck, and balanced vegetation. However I have 6 acres, but 8-9 foot drawdowns. Like I always say, every pond is unique. I could throw any kind of minnows in here, shiners, tuffies, they don't last a day. Bluegill and gsf last a few days. I'd say 95% of my juveniles end up food for bass. I have never caught nor seen a bass above 5" below 10". That slot is empty. And by my journals I average over 500 a season at this pond.

I wish I had a second pond that I manage where I had complete control and I would try to do what you have. But I already get complaints from residents that they fish all day and never get a bite. I take them out as a guide and they thank me for the best fishing day ever. I don't except tips. And I never have a harsh word towards the kids. If they snag, birds nest or lose a fish it's no problem, and I laugh. If I can make a kid smile and have a good time it has made my day. But I have to make a seperate kiddie bluegill pond for the kids. It's started, but might take another year.

Pond Frog this is just a WAG, but do you think Chain Pickerel might help supply forage if you put in some adults and with them spawning so early when bass are sluggish they might help the forage base?

PS. I just realized you probably don't have CP in California.

No pickerel, what I would really like is Lake Chubsuckers, none of those either. But I am starting a pond tomorrow with 400 breeder shiners. What I am missing is midrange forage. And I know it. I either selective harvest some LmB out, or I keep adding mid size bg, around 500 a season. I would like to have an adjacent shiner pond there, that is in the works also. What happens is when I have the Summer drawdown the forage cover is gone, and good bye smaller fish. Almost all of them. I have thousands of fingerling or 2-3" lmb before that and never see them again. It's taken me 7 seasons to get it this far, I adjust slowly now. But if I had 2,000 bg or shiners, mid size, I'd throw them in. I just have my lmb stacked so heavy there are too many mouths to feed.