Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Winter Hardy Redears

Does anyone know of a source for redears adapted to the north? I've heard that they exist, but have been unable to locate a supply in Michigan. If not, perhaps pumpkinseeds would be the alternative for snail control. Have not seen much positive feedback on pumpkinseeds on this board due to small size. Cecil, I think you talked about large pumpkinseeds on a fishing trip somewhere, are you aware of good genetic broodstock for these critters?

there are several places around NE Indiana, where i'm from that have redear fingerlings for sale. http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/fish/fishing/commfish.htm check that site out, i'm sure some of those places deliver to michigan.

Steve,

Don't know if redears (shellcrackers) will survive as far north as you as the northern end of their range is southern Michigan as far as I know. And I am under the impression that even though they survive in lakes in southern Michigan and Northern Indiana they may not fare as well in shallower farm ponds.

If you are willing to go to the trouble to catch some and attempt to bring them back to your pond Coldwater Lake near Coldwater, Michigan has some dandies. Also just north of me the Lake James and Snow Lake chain has some monsters too. As a taxidermist I've mounted them over 2 lbs from these lakes.

If you want to plant something that eats snails and is hardy as far north as you, as you eluded to, Pumpkinseeds would be the ticket. However where I caught them is really far from you and me -- Massachusetts.

Mike Robinson of Keystone in northern Illinois is going to get some in the future and he may be able to help you.

I have also listed some other farms that are listed in the Aquaculture buyers guide as suppliers of pumpkinseeds. Don't be put off that they seem far away. They may deliver near you or know of haulers that are passing through our area from their area and may be able to set something up.

Mike Robinson's contact info is:

ph: 815-678-2537
[email protected]
www.keystonehatcheries.com

Here's the other suppliers for pumpkinseeds listed in my Aquaculture Buyers Guide:

Midwest Fish & Crayfish MN
218-765-3030
Northeastern Aquatics NY
845-876-3983
Paradise Fish Farm, OH
330-549-2990
Smith Creek Fish, NY
West Central Bait Co. Inc MN
320-354-5533

Be aware that the both redears and pumpkinseeds could hybridize with your bluegills if you have them. If that does not concern you then it is not a problem.

I will be catching redears from a couple of neighboring lakes and planting them into my pond after a preventive salt treatment. If you were closer I could possible get you some. I too have too many snails for confort.

Thank you for the replies. I'll make a few phone calls and see what my options are. Have never tried transplanting fish that were caught over considerable distances. I'm guessing that it would need to be done during cool weather and would need some decent equipment and knowledge.

Cecil, I usually run two field trials a year in Syracuse, not too far from you but unfortunately won't be making it this year due to an injury. As far as climate, we may not be too bad in southwest Michigan due to the moderating effect of the Lake. If you go by agricultural zones we are pretty similar.

I'm not a fish guy so I'm guessing that the effects of hybridization will be to create some interesting looking fish and possibly muddle up the gene pool. If the redears are on the edge of their range, maybe they are a better choice experimentally than the pumpkinseed, which might establish very quickly. Anyone know what the traits of the natural hybrids would be(redear/bluegill vs pseed/bluegill)? Would a northern bluegill/redear cross be a 13-inch coldwater snail killing machine that breeds 5 times per year?

On a serious note, if hybridization occurred, would the fertility of the forage base be diminished?

"I'm not a fish guy so I'm guessing that the effects of hybridization will be to create some interesting looking fish and possibly muddle up the gene pool. If the redears are on the edge of their range, maybe they are a better choice experimentally than the pumpkinseed, which might establish very quickly. Anyone know what the traits of the natural hybrids would be(redear/bluegill vs pseed/bluegill)? Would a northern bluegill/redear cross be a 13-inch coldwater snail killing machine that breeds 5 times per year?"

"On a serious note, if hybridization occurred, would the fertility of the forage base be diminished?"

Actually redear/bluegill hybrids and pumpkinseed/bluegill hybrids can get quite large. We have a few lakes in my are that nuturally produce bluegill/redear hybrids. Addtionlly first generation male bluegill/pumpkinseed hybrids can be quite large. I just mounted one up that is 1 lb. 6 oz.

Not sure about pumpkinseeds but redears only spawn once a year vs bluegills more than once a year so any hybrid would produce less offspring than a pure bluegill.

As far as hauling it can be done in cold water with a large coolers and the baitwell aerators available from Bass Pro and Cabelas.

If the hybrids only spawn once a year, or have reduced fertility, then they will remain a small portion of the population. If pure strain BG out produce BG hybrids then BG will dominate and the hybrids will mostly be first generation hybrids, not a seperate reproducing population.

For those of you in the "north country" who are curious about redear sunfish, here is the "definitive" report on redear sunfish from a Michigan DNR biologist. It's technical, but very well done.

http://www.michigandnr.com/PUBLICATIONS/PDFS/ifr/ifrlibra/technical/reports/2003-3tr.pdf

Dave

Thanks Dave, Great article. Many of the conditions mentioned bode well for redears in my pond including clear water, sand bottom, ample vegetation, and being only 10-miles from Lake Michigan (160+ frost free days). Hybridization doesn't sound like a huge concern although I suppose a 2.2-acre pond is different from an inland lake. The difference in growth rates and maximum size is pretty significant. Not too interested in pumpkinseeds after reading that article.

The problem is finding redears, have had no luck with the contacts provided above so far, waiting for a couple return calls (why don't fish suppliers return phone calls?). Looks like the stocking rate would be about 200 fingerlings or 10-12 adult pairs. I feel a fishing trip coming on, Cecil are you interested? I like to barter and trade too.

Dave, Thanks for the great link. I had never considered redears untill I read that paper. I immeadiatly started looking for info on the number of frost free days for my area. As far as I can figure we get about 160 frost free days on average. The pond should be clear and deep since it is a sand/gravel pit.
Would redears be a good addition to BG/SMB? and if I could get them, How many should be stocked along side BG?
Big redears would be a great addition to this pond because big panfish is my #1 or #2 goal, and stunted BG is my #1 fear.

Finally managed to get 250 1-2" redear sunfish. Came from a supplier south of Indianapolis. Planted them in 0.5 acre frog pond (only 2-4' deep). Ths pond has been completed for two years and has no predator fish, only fathead minnows. The plan is to let them grow until fall then seine and plant the survivors in the 2-acre pond at a larger size to escape/reduce predation.

Questions for the experts: These are apparently wild fish. Is there any chance that they will feed on pellets? My understanding is that redears are bottom oriented fish that may not take pellets,would it be worth trying sinking pellets? Is this pond likely to have enough forage for these fish to achieve a rapid growth rate and how do I evaluate the forage base?

Questions for the experts: These are apparently wild fish. Is there any chance that they will feed on pellets? My understanding is that redears are bottom oriented fish that may not take pellets,would it be worth trying sinking pellets? Is this pond likely to have enough forage for these fish to achieve a rapid growth rate and how do I evaluate the forage base?[/QB][/QUOTE]

Never ever claim to be an expert, but 250 redears for the time being in a .5 acre pond with no predators should be just fine. There should be lots of natural feed in there by now. And larger redears will eat fatheads. Redears from my experience are more carnivorous than bluegills, etc.

As far as feed training them or getting them to feed on pellets -- that is doubtful. Even the fish farmers can't seem to do it, so your chances are slim to none. You'd probably have to crowd them in a cage to even have a chance, but it's too late now.

Glad you found someone. Sounds like Aquatic Control in Seymour?

Aren't some fish farmers a real peach? I've actually be chewed out for asking about the availability of fish. Go figure. I deal with some on an annual basis and you really have to wonder how some of them stay in business. Had one supplier in Ohio tell me he had lots and lots of female adult perch for me -- no problem. Then when it got closer to pick up time he said, "Oh, we're short of adult perch this year but we MAY be able to find you some in three or four weeks. I didn't like the "MAY" part as I run a business and found a more dependable supplier. It turned out my new supplier was the supplier for the other guy in the past, and now by skipping the middle man the price has been cut in half.

Cecil:

Not sure if it was Aquatic Control, my local guy had enough people asking for redears that he made a run down to Indy (paid 0.40 each). You're right about fish farmers, I've never been able to figure out how they make any money. They never return phone calls, take your order then disappear. When you call a month later they tell you that they ran out and have you down for a fall delivery.

I was looking forward to collecting some big redears and may still do so. Are the panfish on the beds in your area? We are just killing the salmon on Lake Michigan right now. Limits for everyone.

I don't think the panfish are on the beds yet in area lakes as my bass are just starting to bed in the pond and typically the lakes warm up later. And of course bass bed before the bluegills etc..

I'm actually having so much fun growing and harvesting fish by hook and line on the property the public lakes are a let down. And normal anglers do not have a level playing ground around here anymore as they are being harassed by power boaters and PWC's. I do have two small lakes near me that are not frequented by motor craft and will attempt to harvest some redears from them for the bass pond. Wawasee has redears too, but it is a freaking carnival with all the boats. No fun anymore.