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Joined: Nov 2009
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Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Nov 2009
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I just started work on a new place in central Tx. There are several ponds over 4 acres that I am to manage and produce big bass. I am not entirely familiar with ponds mostly flow through trout hatcheries. I have looked around and can not find any ledgible records of types of fish, catch records, water quality, nothing. Ive been told what was in the ponds and clearly the ponds are doing pretty well i've seen nice bass come out of these ponds. My main question is where should i start? I thought about checking water quality and possibly shocking to see what it may produce and start a record? Though I know it would be hard on the fish since it is getting colder.
Last edited by fishwrangler; 01/29/10 05:10 PM.
take a kid fishing the first catch creates a life long fisherman. (my dad)
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Ambassador
Field Correspondent Lunker
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Ambassador
Field Correspondent Lunker
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Hello fishwrangler and welcome to Pond Boss, hang on and one of the experts ought to be along to help you out.
JHAP
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"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)
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Joined: Nov 2009
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Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Nov 2009
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take a kid fishing the first catch creates a life long fisherman. (my dad)
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Moderator Lunker
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I'm not a Pro or expert, just a pond junkie. First, find out what the Owners goals are, write it down to develop a plan to maintain and exceed it. What kind of budget can you get? Look at the condition of the fish and identify the status of the forage base. I once read and agree that the best Ranch managers are grass farmers. They understand that it all starts and end with forage amount and quality. Water quality can have a huge effect here. Start a catch log and identify the RW of all fish caught. See http://www.lakework.com for some pretty interesting charts. Any weed problems? Contact Greg Grimes, Bob Lusk, Todd Overton, Nate Lee(N8LY) and other professionals. Where will you be?
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.
Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP Grandpa
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Joined: Nov 2009
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Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Nov 2009
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The goals are that of most who try to raise LMB The big time trophy fish. They arent far off They've got at least one 23 in fish they have a picture of. They just want more. The budget should not be much of a problem given a good reason.
I agree with your statement about the grass farmer ive just read 3 of bob lusks books they are great, really put things in perspective. How should I go about checking the forage base I have a shock boat at my disposal, I just didnt know how they would handle that since it is getting colder. RW??? Weeds are in pretty good control.
take a kid fishing the first catch creates a life long fisherman. (my dad)
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Lunker
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Lunker
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If you have a shocker boat then go take a look. Compute RWs for the bass that you sample then also figure PSDs for bass and sunfish. Also report on water quality, visibility, aquatic vegetation, and fish habitat/cover/structure.
Once you have more info then we can provide better advise. If you don't know how to compute RWs and the PSD indices then do more research and you'll also find a lot of that here on the forum I believe.
It's ALL about the fish!
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Ambassador Hall of Fame 2014  Lunker
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Ambassador Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Wrangler: I am not sure you asked what RW was,but just in case:
RW Relative Weight
FISH ACRONYMS
AG = Alligator Gar
BC = blue catfish
BCP = black crappie
BG = bluegill
BRNT = brown trout
BRKT = brook trout
CC = channel catfish
CGC = common (German) carp
CNBG = copper nose bluegill
CSBG = Condello strain bluegill
CP = chain pickerel
DGC = diploid grass carp (capable of reproducing)
FHM = fathead minnow
FHC = flathead catfish
F1 = (filial #1) first generation of offspring, usually of hybrids
Fn = Nth generation of the above
FG = Florida Gar
GAR = Gar, non-specified species
GC = grass carp
GG = Georgia giant sunfish
GP = grass pickerel
GSD = gizzard shad
GSF = green sunfish
GSH = golden shiner
HBG = hybrid bluegill
HSB = hybrid striped bass
LES = longear sunfish
LG = Longnose Gar
LMB = largemouth bass
MMB = meanmouth bass (LMBxSMB)
NP = northern pike
OSS = orangespotted sunfish
PS = pumpkinseed sunfish
RBS = redbreast sunfish
RBT = rainbow trout
RKB = rock bass
RES = redear sunfish
RRFHM = rosy red fathead minnow
RW = relative weight (see Wr)
SMB = smallmouth bass
SPB = spotted bass
SG = Spotted Gar
TAF-CNBG = Texas/Arkansas/Florida CNBG, a george specialty
TGC = triploid grass carp (sterile)
TGG = Georgia Giant that's "Gone to Texas"
TFS = threadfin shad
TT = tiger trout
WB = white bass
WCP = white crappie
WE = walleye
Wr = Relative Weight (see RW)
YOY = young of year
YP = yellow perch
PLANT ACRONYMS
DW = duckweed
FA = filamentous algae (pond scum or moss)
BIRD ACRONYMS
GBH = great blue heron
GH = green heron
WT = water turkey (cormorant)
REPTILE ACRONYMS
AST = alligator snapping turtle
CHRM = copperheaded rattlemoccasin (any snake)
PT = painted turtle
RST = red slider turtle
ST = snapping turtle
LIVE BAIT (BUGS & WORMS) ACRONYMS
BSF = black soldier fly
CR = cricket
CW = catalpa worm
EW = earthworm (non-specific)
MW = mealworm
NC = nightcrawler
RW = redworm
RWTCOW = red wigglers, the Cadillac of Worms
TC = tent caterpiller
WW = waxworm
GENERAL ACRONYMS
ACRONYM = A Common Repository of Names You Makeup (i.e. this list)
APB = After Pond Boss
BFIP = Big Fish in the Pond
BISA = Brothers in Smallmouth Association
BOW = body of water
BPB = Before Pond Boss
BTW = by the way
CW = conventional wisdom
DLYHKHMTPC = don't let your husband know how much the pond cost
DLYWKHMTPC = don't let your wife know how much the pond cost
FME = from my experience
FOE = Fraternal Order of Eagles (traditional)
FOE = Friggin' Otters are Evil (Condello)
FPPT = Fish Photo Presentation Technique
FWIW = for what it's worth
GSA = (1)Green Sunfish Association - just don't mess with them.
GSA = (2)Group of Simple-minded Accountants - just don't mess with them.
IIRC = if I recall/read/remember correctly
IME = in my experience
IMO = in my opinion
IMHO = in my humble opinion
IOW = in other words
JAIWAK = just an idiot with a keyboard
LL2 = Lusk Lodge 2, Bob Lusk's stately manor
LMAO = laughing really hard, to the point of losing weight
LOL = laughing out loud
LOL = (wrt feed or butter) Land'O'Lakes
LSHIFIMP = laughing so hard I fell in my pond
OTOH = on the other hand
PBR = Po' Boy RAS, a small scale semi-recirculating aquaculture system
PLUP = personal liability umbrella (insurance) policy
PM = private message
RAS = recirculating aquaculture system
ROTFL = rolling on the floor laughing
ROTFLMAO = rolling on the floor laughing really hard
SSS = shoot, shovel, and shut up
SWAG = semi-wild guess (alternatively, scientific wild guess)
TIA = thanks in advance
TSS = total suspended solids
TTT = to the top (bump)
WAG = wild guess
WRT = with respect to
YMMV = your mileage may vary
YPTTPP = Your Path to the Perfect Pond
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"I love living. I have some problems with my life, but living is the best thing they've come up with so far." � Neil Simon,
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Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent Lunker
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Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,883 Likes: 117 |
Wrangler: I am not sure you asked what RW was,but just in case:
RW Relative Weight
FISH ACRONYMS
AG = Alligator Gar
BC = blue catfish
BCP = black crappie
BG = bluegill
BRNT = brown trout
BRKT = brook trout
CC = channel catfish
CGC = common (German) carp
CNBG = copper nose bluegill
CSBG = Condello strain bluegill
CP = chain pickerel
DGC = diploid grass carp (capable of reproducing)
FHM = fathead minnow
FHC = flathead catfish
F1 = (filial #1) first generation of offspring, usually of hybrids
Fn = Nth generation of the above
FG = Florida Gar
GAR = Gar, non-specified species
GC = grass carp
GG = Georgia giant sunfish
GP = grass pickerel
GSD = gizzard shad
GSF = green sunfish
GSH = golden shiner
HBG = hybrid bluegill
HSB = hybrid striped bass
LES = longear sunfish
LG = Longnose Gar
LMB = largemouth bass
MMB = meanmouth bass (LMBxSMB)
NP = northern pike
OSS = orangespotted sunfish
PS = pumpkinseed sunfish
RBS = redbreast sunfish
RBT = rainbow trout
RKB = rock bass
RES = redear sunfish
RRFHM = rosy red fathead minnow
RW = relative weight (see Wr)
SMB = smallmouth bass
SPB = spotted bass
SG = Spotted Gar
TAF-CNBG = Texas/Arkansas/Florida CNBG, a george specialty
TGC = triploid grass carp (sterile)
TGG = Georgia Giant that's "Gone to Texas"
TFS = threadfin shad
TT = tiger trout
WB = white bass
WCP = white crappie
WE = walleye
Wr = Relative Weight (see RW)
YOY = young of year
YP = yellow perch
PLANT ACRONYMS
DW = duckweed
FA = filamentous algae (pond scum or moss)
BIRD ACRONYMS
GBH = great blue heron
GH = green heron
WT = water turkey (cormorant)
REPTILE ACRONYMS
AST = alligator snapping turtle
CHRM = copperheaded rattlemoccasin (any snake)
PT = painted turtle
RST = red slider turtle
ST = snapping turtle
LIVE BAIT (BUGS & WORMS) ACRONYMS
BSF = black soldier fly
CR = cricket
CW = catalpa worm
EW = earthworm (non-specific)
MW = mealworm
NC = nightcrawler
RW = redworm
RWTCOW = red wigglers, the Cadillac of Worms
TC = tent caterpiller
WW = waxworm
GENERAL ACRONYMS
ACRONYM = A Common Repository of Names You Makeup (i.e. this list)
APB = After Pond Boss
BFIP = Big Fish in the Pond
BISA = Brothers in Smallmouth Association
BOW = body of water
BPB = Before Pond Boss
BTW = by the way
CW = conventional wisdom
DLYHKHMTPC = don't let your husband know how much the pond cost
DLYWKHMTPC = don't let your wife know how much the pond cost
FME = from my experience
FOE = Fraternal Order of Eagles (traditional)
FOE = Friggin' Otters are Evil (Condello)
FPPT = Fish Photo Presentation Technique
FWIW = for what it's worth
GSA = (1)Green Sunfish Association - just don't mess with them.
GSA = (2)Group of Simple-minded Accountants - just don't mess with them.
IIRC = if I recall/read/remember correctly
IME = in my experience
IMO = in my opinion
IMHO = in my humble opinion
IOW = in other words
JAIWAK = just an idiot with a keyboard
LL2 = Lusk Lodge 2, Bob Lusk's stately manor
LMAO = laughing really hard, to the point of losing weight
LOL = laughing out loud
LOL = (wrt feed or butter) Land'O'Lakes
LSHIFIMP = laughing so hard I fell in my pond
OTOH = on the other hand
PBR = Po' Boy RAS, a small scale semi-recirculating aquaculture system
PLUP = personal liability umbrella (insurance) policy
PM = private message
RAS = recirculating aquaculture system
ROTFL = rolling on the floor laughing
ROTFLMAO = rolling on the floor laughing really hard
SSS = shoot, shovel, and shut up
SWAG = semi-wild guess (alternatively, scientific wild guess)
TIA = thanks in advance
TSS = total suspended solids
TTT = to the top (bump)
WAG = wild guess
WRT = with respect to
YMMV = your mileage may vary
YPTTPP = Your Path to the Perfect Pond
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Maybe we should add a couple? MCP Magnolia Crappie or HCP Hybrid Crappie BNCP Blacknose Crappie PVCRAT - A temporary state of hallucination
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau ![[Linked Image from i1261.photobucket.com]](http://i1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii582/teehjaeh57/I_subscribe_zps69249d43.gif)
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Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
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Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
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Posts: 7,103 Likes: 24 |
DeadPVCRAT--Rex was here
Magnolia crappie is HyBC for hybrid black crappie
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Joined: Mar 2005
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 22,033 Likes: 483 |
MDWFP fishery managers now have a tool that can be used to produce good and stable crappie fishing in small impoundments. The tool is a fish � a triploid hybrid crappie � the Magnolia crappie, and it is being produced at the North Mississippi Fish Hatchery.
Making Magnolia crappie
The Magnolia crappie is a cross between a male blackstripe crappie and a female white crappie. The blackstripe crappie is a color variant of the black crappie that occurs naturally in low numbers in some Mississippi impoundments. The blackstripe crappie � also called a blacknose crappie � is recognized by a narrow, dark stripe from the dorsal fin forward down the top of the head and continues on the underside of the head to the back of the mouth.
The hybrid offspring of the male blackstripe crappie and the female white crappie retains the black stripe. Using the blackstripe crappie as the male parent instead of a normally colored black crappie allows hybrids produced in the hatchery to be easily recognized.
But hybrid crappie can reproduce, so hybrids don�t accomplish the goal of controlled reproduction needed to effectively manage crappie in small impoundments. But the hatchery scientists have one more trick � they make the crappies triploid.
Crappie, as most fish, have two sets of chromosomes. This is the diploid condition, and diploid fish reproduce normally. Triploid crappie have three sets of chromosomes. Cellular processes necessary to produce viable eggs and sperm break down when there are three sets of chromosomes. It is the triploid condition that prevents the triploid hybrid crappie from producing offspring. The fish produce eggs and sperm and mate, but the fertilized eggs do not develop.
The triploid offspring are produced by stripping eggs from normal female white crappie and fertilizing them with sperm stripped from normal male blackstripe crappie. At exactly five minutes after fertilization, the eggs are put into a pressure chamber and exposed to 8,000 psi of pressure for two minutes. This interrupts the normal cellular processes, and results in the egg retaining an extra set of chromosomes. The fertilized egg, and the offspring that develops from it, have three sets of chromosomes, and cannot produce offspring.
Crappie reproduction is controlled only if all the stocked fish are triploid. Unfortunately, the procedure is not yet fool-proof. The percentage of offspring that are triploid has ranged from 60 percent to 100 percent, so work remains to further refine the process. Fish can be tested to see if they are triploid by taking a tiny blood sample from each fish. The process does not injure the fish, but is very labor intensive and limits the number of fish that can be stocked.
As the hatchery staff continues to refine their procedures, Magnolia crappie are being produced and will be stocked into some state fishing lakes. The MDWFP hatchery does not provide fish for private stocking.
Hard work and progressive thinking will produce great crappie fishing without creating populations of overabundant and small crappie of little interest to anglers.
By Hal Schramm
.gif) 
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Joined: Jan 2008
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Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent Lunker
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Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,883 Likes: 117 |
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau
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Joined: Mar 2005
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Here you go. 
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Posts: 29,788 Likes: 1295 |
I'd like to see the aparatus that they use to get the 8,000 psi! (and the vessel that they use to hold the eggs).
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 41
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 41 |
OK well with having two broke feet the hands on progress has been none but as far as general knowledge I have gained quite a bit of valuable info. Thank you to all who have helped and hopefully soon I will be back at it and put yalls knowledge and ideas to work. I have a question now that I know more about what I want to do and I'm sorry if the confuses the heck outta you. I was asked what the goals were by dave. The goals I want to accomplish are as follows:1) I want a one pond devoted to Trophy LMB only; I have a 3 acre pond that I think would best suited for this ie: Stucture/cover the depths and overall shape of the pond. My idea is that I should have, according to the other thread by esshup about carrying capacity; 400 lbs give or take of fish/acre.My 3 acre pond can hold 1200lbs of fish. That being the case I should plan on my Bass getting 15lbs(not likely but shoot high right). So at 15 lbs per LMB and the fact that you should have 10lbs forage per pound of LMB I can fit 7 LMB(105lbs) and 1050lbs of CNBG and RES in various lengths with 45lbs worth of carrying capacity left for whatever(smaller LMB whatever). Because my assumption of the LMB trophy pond you want mostly large LMB with a few in every size range to grow up and replace granddad through the years. A few large CNBG and a moderate amount of small to mediums, and RES to keep away parasites. Am I getting the basic jist of what I'm shooting for? I have two other goals but I'll save that headache for tommorow lol. Any and all comments welcome and wanted. Thanks all 
take a kid fishing the first catch creates a life long fisherman. (my dad)
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Moderator Lunker
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Moderator Lunker
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JMO: To get there, and assuming that you really do want Big LMB, I would probably not have a breeding population. I would stock about twenty of Overtons pure strain Florida females per acre with plentiful aeration. If they are feed trained, so much the better. For forage I would supply Mozambique Tilapia(annually), Redears, and some Hybrid Bluegills.
I think the biggest threat to a big bass pond is overspawning by those bass. So to have bigger bass, cut down on the competition by using all females. Since lesser numbers of bass will not control bluegill numbers, count on other supplies of protein.
BTW, no way would I want the pond I'm indicating. To get big bass, they are best left alone with food stuffed to them. Not much fun at all.
Lots of other ways to get there. I'll let others chime in on those.
Last edited by Dave Davidson1; 01/30/10 07:56 AM.
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.
Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP Grandpa
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Ambassador
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Hall of Fame Lunker
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I like Dave's idea...
If you really only care about trophy bass, stock female only FL LMB. Stocking 20 females a year could be an interesting fishery... You're not gonna catch many, but the ones you catch will get huge. Even in a 3 acre pond, stocking 20 female only a year, you could probably keep the BG under control. LMB are amazingly effective at eating things. Not sure what the cost of stocking 20 female FL LMB would be, but it would be a sure fire way to prevent stunting of LMB, you'd only have females taking up the biomass and they are the sex that grow to trophy portions.
Tilapia and RES could be added as well. Once you're into your 6th or 7th season, you may need to consider something that grows even bigger than BG to start feeding the bass who will by that time be pushing if not exceeding double digit weights... That fish being gizzard shad, but that's a ways off...
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Moderator Lunker
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Moderator Lunker
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Actually, the bass fishing will probably be lousy. Florida bass don't bite as well as the garden variety ones. And then, you won't have many and they will probably be full of forage. But when you do fell a tic on your line, you wouldn't want to using ultralight.
Actually, this recipe is the lazy mans way to raise huge bass. Lots of other ways but you have to work hard and manage through culling.
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.
Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP Grandpa
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Joined: Jan 2009
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I don't think anyone else has tried this method on here that I know of... Very interesting method though. All female FL LMB, keep stocking numbers per year low and feed them to death with lots of forage!
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Lunker
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Lunker
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hmm well thats easy and interesting enough. Yeah I have a few ponds most 1-3 acres and one I wanted to be "TROPHY" I know the fishing wont be all that great but when you do hook one hold on. Thats my next question is an average size constant good fishing pond. I have reserved my 6 acre pond for this I want to have LMB anywhere from 14-? in long that I can have a good number of to catch non stop, action all day sort of pond. With this pond I will be wanting to go for the more "balanced" pond correct?
take a kid fishing the first catch creates a life long fisherman. (my dad)
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Moderator Lunker
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Yep, with native bass only.
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.
Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP Grandpa
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 100
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Jul 2008
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It sounds like you already have fish in all of your ponds. If so, the all female strategy would not play out well unless you pull the plug on one and start over. Since you have a shock boat I would deploy it this spring early and have a look. The condition of fish and population structure of each pond as it is now will tell you more than anything about the best direction to take each pond. If you are serious about a true trophy LMB pond, I would suggest using the larger pond if all other factors are equal. Truly large bass seem to need their space as well as food. I have seen pond owners/fisherman become very frustrated trying to make small ponds into trophy bass ponds. Whatever you decide, sit down and write a management strategy for each pond and follow it and keep records going forward.
-HH
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Joined: Nov 2009
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Lunker
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Lunker
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Thanks for all your opinions they are truly helpful and welcomed. I will get out there as soon as I can and get some hard data to present and start making "NEW" records since there wasnt any from before. I am getting really ancy.
take a kid fishing the first catch creates a life long fisherman. (my dad)
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 41
Lunker
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Lunker
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I got another fairly dumb question. I cant remember from high school what we had them set at. I have a couple of holding/transport tanks with oxygen bottles set up with it. I cant remember what pressure to have the bottles set at. Here are a couple pics of the set up I have. I will be using these fairly soon to go pick up a snack for the LMB. Thanks guys. [img]http://  [/img] [img]http://  [/img]
take a kid fishing the first catch creates a life long fisherman. (my dad)
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