Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Where are my Bass?

I stocked my pond last fall according to all the rules my bass have been in now for a year. I took my little girl fishing and we caught a lot of the bluegill and catfish all good size, but as of this time we have not caught a bass. I have seen one this spring who was about double in size swimming close to the surface(thought maybe he was dying) I have tried a casting net but all I catch are tiny bluegill. I have not fished hard for bass because I thought that they would not be big enough. Is this right or am I just not trying hard enough to catch a bass? Are they there? If other fish are ok and growing extremely fast should I assume (?) the bass are doing the same?????

Your fish catching problems and apparent lack of bass may have to do with stocking your fish "according to all the rules" and advice of the "old fish hatchery guy" who told you it was alright to stock crappie with bass in your small pond that you commented on in the post of Types Of Fish TO Chose, topic: Types of Fish to Never Stock. If you added crappie in with a low number of bass you compounded your future problems.

You say future problems. What can I do now to correct it if anything. I know my fair share about fishing and the "ways of fish" if you will my guess would be to overpopulate the bass. Food is not a problem you would have to see it to believe it, for the bass I would think in this scenerio blue gill would be worse since they eat bass eggs, if there no problem with food then crappie should noy be that big of a problem, correct?? Any suggesstions would be great.

Not only will bgill eat bass eggs, but just about all types - species of overcrowded fish will eat eggs or fish fry. The key is to not let any species get over crowded. Bgill only eat bass eggs when bgill are overcrowded or stunted and food is in short supply.

Firstly, it is getting pretty late in the year in OH to readily catch bass. They will bite but not as aggresively as when water is above 60F.

Secondly. I highly recommend you go back to Fenders or call him and ask why you can't catch bass and what the problem is. His advice and rules got you where you are currently. He was your main fish stocking consultant first. Exhaust his knowledge and alternatives first. Don't get us in a he said, you said contest. Fender is good, friendly, and pretty knowledgable. He has lots of experience with fish stocking problems. You and him should be able to work out your "bass problem" together. He knows your stocking rates and all species involved. He was good enough to talk you into trying crappie in the pond, he can surely figure out why the bass are not plentiful or are not biting.

Have you tried fishing for bass with fatheads? Get some fatheads for bait when you visit him. If you have any bass in the pond they should bite on the minnows if fished properly; esp if you turn lose a few dozen first before fishing. You might want to wait till next spring before fishing again. By then the bass and crappie may thin out the small bgill over winter & early spring and then be more hungry & ready to bite in late spring.

Did the old as dirt comment give it away? Let me ask you this do you think he knows what he is talking about or did I get suckered by an old man? Your are smart enough to figure out where I was dealing so I will assume I am talking to someone who is a lot smarter than me at this. This gives me faith in this forum because sometimes I have to wonder who I am really talking to. I really appreciate your help and I will give him a call. Like I said before I have not fished for them really at all at this point because I assume (I hate that word) that they are not big enough as of yet. Then on the other hand I have caught many bass that have hit a lure twice there size. This spring I will see what I can come up with at that point they will be almost two full years of age I should get something. Thanks Did you see my post on fountains ? Thers a place near here in marietta that sells fountain/areators, they say they do both and are just what I need they suck from about three to four feet, Whats you take on that? thanks again, Ben

Never mind about the fountain I saw your post ..Thanks

bc - See my credentials under your Aeration-Fountain post. I know D.Fender quite well and have done a lot of business with him. I have even given talks at his "hatchery". Mention my name and you will get a response from him. Fender claims that HE taught me everything I know about raising fish. (Also, Keep in mind that I and most of us on this forum said crappie should be stocked only with care and lots of fore-thought, preplanning and close & proper mgmt, many cannot achieve this). He knows what he is talking about, BUT he does not always tell you the whole story or the other side of the picture or about some of the bad times with crappie. Remember, he is there to SELL YOU FISH and you are there to buy fish. What a combination !!!

Your TWO yr old bass in SE OH could easily be 14" long by now if they had plenty of food and did not have a lot of competition for growth from other fish predators such as crappie. Once you catch a few of your bass you will be able to get a feeling on how their growth has been so far. Smaller bass means not enough food and too many hogs feeding at the trough. The smaller your bass are from 14" mark the more competition there has been for food and each is not getting enough to eat.

I have seen LMB in NW OH go from 3" to 12" in one summer (Apr to Oct). It is possible in our region for those 12" bass to grow another 3" to 4" to 15" to 16" in the second summer in your pond. Cecil on this board has done it; I've seen the fish.

Fish will grow as long as food is in excess. Limit the amount of food,,, and growth slows or stops.

Copy all this stuff and keep it for reference for your fish sampling sessions this spring. Come back next spring and tell us about your bass sampling experiences and Fender's advice. We may be able to learn a few hints from the "wise old fish farmer"..

Hey bc!! you did not say what size your lake was, how deep it is,...or anything also what was your stocking rates? How old is the lake? Is this the first time stock?

What do you think of fish chow, purina for instance? I bought a bag through it in to feed the fish none came to the surface to eat it? It eventually sank Did they eat it? did it go to waste? Since I did not want to train my fish to eat this and it appeared they were not interested I sdid not purchase anymore. Is this stuff any account for the BASS!!! or is it a waste of time?????Thanks again bill for your help. Oh as for Mr. Fender believe it or not since I did not want the crappie he gave them to me for free along with a few hundred xtra minnows this may have been compensation for the crappie or something else I do not know but I did not get the feeling he was trying to sell me something. Strange I know but true. Also should I continue with minnows adding more or just leave the original stocking alone? Thanks

bc - Fender does not feed his fish Pruina Pond Chow; he feeds Pruina Aquamax for carnivours. The fish you bought from him were probably not feed trained. Which means they will not automatically come up and eat fish food; they have to be trained to eat that stuff. Rarely will bass ever eat P.Pond Chow even if they are feed trained since it has low protein and it is not for carnivorous fish. LM bass are feed trained on very high protin trout chow or similar food. Pond Chow is basically only for bgill and catfish. I doubt that bgill ate the food once it sunk. Catfish might eat it off the bottom.

I realize you said earlier that Dennis gave you the crappie. He knew what he was doing. You are going to need lots of minnow types to keep them growing well. You will have a very hard time keeping a good abundance of minnows in the pond with 3 predator types, bass crappie and catfish, in there; esp once the bass start spawning. Just hope your crappie do not spawn for you. You will get way too many fish needing minnows/sm. fish for food. More food than your bgill can produce. A few hundred fathead minnows in a 3/4 acre pond is almost nothing and it was probably to get the crappie started eating something they prefer right away. A couple hundred minnows barely weigh a pound and do not last long with bass eating them.

How many crappie did Fender give you??. He knew what he was doing. A happy customer is a repeat customer. Adding minnows or more forage items will depend on how successful the bgill spawns are each year and what the predator density is. First sample your bass population. While fishing for bass you may even catch a crappie. Measure & record lenghts of all fish caught. People who are going to help you will need that information.

I will check my logs and give you the numbers of fish hopefully tommorrow I cant remember off the top of my head. Thanks for info on pond chow, I was not sure if I was wasting my money though I kind of suspected. What your saying is then I do need to continue to add fat head minnows, what time of year?

bc - Note I said "minnows OR more forage items". Most of those with experience on this forum, including me, think adding fatheads to a pond with an existing bass populaton is a waste of money unless you have a LOT of money or pretty deep pockets. Best all-around bass forage item is bgill. Getting high numbers of the optimum numbers of the correct sizes of bgill for the bass requires management or luck; esp for long term bass population growth.

Fender, unless I miss my guess, will probably want to sell you more fatheads to promote your crappie or bass growth. Ask Fender when you should be adding the fatheads. I think fatheads are primarily for growing the first stocking of fingerling bass. After that, fatheads cannot begin to keep pace with bass predation. And then any addition of fatheads is just like giving your dog a snack or treat. To actually do any good at fish growth and for a pond your size you would need to add one gallon (8 lbs)of fatheads every 2 to 4 weeks.

I'm not sure that fatheads stocked alone with crappie would even work for very long. Crappie alone with golden shiners may be a better option. Crappie sizes and densities would have to be watched and managed carefully and crappie spawning would have to be minimized.

Crappie do eat small bgill because I've caught crappie when using small 1"-1.5" bgill as bait. I think crappie prefer minnows or shiners as forage. Bgill quickly grow out of optimum forage size for the 4" to 6" crappie. So the rest of the year crappie have to scrounge for food and their growth suffers or stagnates.

I think Pond chow or Game fish Chow is pretty much a waste of money if you are wanting or expecting the bass to eat and grow well on it. However those foods do work pretty good for bgill, catfish and minnows.

Bill,

One possible exception is adding fatheads in small ponds for overwintering largemouths that are primarily on pellets. Mike Robinson of Keystone, who I respect on fish knowledge, adds several pounds to his bass ponds and says the bass overwinter better with less stress and bacterial and fungal problems when the water warms back up in spring. The bass don't eat much in winter, but that added small amount protein keeps them in godd condition for spring. But since he raises baitfish he can obviously afford it.
Personally I can't afford it.

Hey Cecil, good to hear from you again on this forum!!! We missed you big time. Everyone was saying "Where's Cecil"?, "where's Cecil"? "To bad Cecil's not here". Good to read your ideas and hear your experiences.

Regarding adding fatheads to a pond in fall with bass, how many pounds of fatheads to you think Mike R. was talking about? How many fatheads per bass do you think it would take to improve the condition or boost the fat level in a bass. Keep in mind that since Mike has a fish farm he is probably talking about pellet raised bass in the 5" to 10" category and not adult fish. OR does he maintain adult pellet raised bass as broodstock? .
Also consider that the larger the bass the more fatheads it would take per bass to make an impact on its relative condition or fat level. I would think you would want to add the fatheads just before freeze up so the benefit would be greatest.

Does Mike R. visit this site anymore?

Bill,

Had a mending so to speak with Pond boss and now that Lusk is at the wheel I never had a problem with Bob.

As far as Mike Robinson of Keystone I haven't seen him on here for a while. He keeps pretty busy.

As far as the size of the bass I know he keeps larger bass in his pond. Don't think size makes much difference in colder water as the food digests quite slow anyway. Case in point I once caught a large brown trout in a local lake early in the spring that had a frog in its stomach. It couldn't have eaten that frog an later than fall.

However you are right about adding the fatheads before freeze up. In fact he stops feeding pellets at a certain point see below:

Cecil,

Pellet diet is fine when the water temps are over 60F, but they have a hard time digesting carbohydrates in the colder water, which can lead to hyperglycemia. Also, we never handle our bass when the water is below 50F. At these low temps, bass have a hard time recovering.

Cecil, common catfish or trout pellets leave a lot to be desired, as far as bass health goes. You can get by with them just fine when the bass have plenty of fish to eat and the water is warm, but when you go into a northern winter you start seeing problems. We have switched to a 45% protein 16% fat steelhead diet, and will try a 48% protein 18% fat low carbohydrate diet this year. This type of diet produces less fat in the liver and is easier to digest. It also produces faster growth and less waste in the water. However, it's expensive.

The fish being fat isn't good enough...I've watched some of my "fat" Hybrid Bluegills that looked healthy as can be roll over dead during the winter because of Hyperglycemia. When I cut them open, it was a fatty mess. I'd make sure that the bass have all they want of a fish diet in the fall. If those were my bass, I'd give them a break for the rest of the winter. Don't underestimate the damage that hooking a fish can, and does do. During warm weather the fish can repair the tissue easily, but not during winter.

Mike is done selling stockers for the year and should have some free time. his mail is [email protected]. He got a nice buck which he would be happy to send you a picture of also.
Robert B