Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations stocking bream in a pond with an Existing pop.

we just had our lakes shocked and in the 7 acer lake we need to put in more bream for our bass. It calls for 8000 more 4-5 inch bream. we also have to lime and fertilize the lake as well. Here is the question, can we buy the bream in the fingerling size and put them into a small area in the lake using a net to isolate them away from the other fish, feed the them with a supplemental food source to help them grow quicker, then release them into the lake when they achieve the 4-5 inch size?
i realize these fish can be bought at the size needed but they so much more expensive, we are trying to find a way to save a little money and still have the bass grow like we wish.

Hello, and welcome to the forum.

To answer your question: Yes; there are several threads on the use of blocking nets, and I'm sure someone who knows where to find them will post links for you.

What were the results of your shocking survey? Relative weights? Size and species distributions?

If you're overly heavy on smaller bass, and they're not well fed, you could be supplying some very expensive fish food.....8K 4-5" BG can't be that cheap. Not to be a cynic, but I'd want to really look closely at the survey before I spent that kind of money on BG....especially if He Who Shocks Also Stocks. I'm not trying to disparage anyone, but I can't recall anyone who's posted here having received similar recommendations. Of course, there may be an excellent reason for this specific suggestion for your lake and your specific goals/budget for it.

I am thinking the same think Yolk. Those numbers are way to high.

If they said you don't have any big bluegill I would recommend 80 adults(6"+) per acre.

Like Yolk and Chris said, can you post the report you got from the Electrofishing Survey?

Well it was very crowded with small bass, we had the lake shocked last spring and were suppose to take out 300lbs of bass. we only got out 200 lbs, in the plan we were also suppose to stock the bluegill at the recommended size to keep the bass from eating all of them. We had it shocked by Southern Pond Management, as far as I know they are pretty reputable. The previous spring we brought in a load of threadfin and then the shock was done the following spring, not one of the threadfin shocked up to the top, so the bass ate most of them before they had a chance to spawn and establish a good population.
We do plan to lime and fertilize as soon as the water warms up to about 60 degrees.
Any thoughts on anything will help?
is the net idea a good one or am i wastnig money, how fast will fingerlings grow if they are put into this environment?

I will try to get the report and post it tomorrow when i get to work, thanks for the suggestions and the help guys,
GOT to go to baseball practice, be back tomorrow.

Do you mean South Eastern Pond Management or Southern Pond Management?

We'll await the survey with interest.

It really sounds as if you'll be fighting a losing battle by adding forage to a pond in which the primary problem is too many [small and possibly stunted] predators. The initial suggestion, that of removing small bass, is probably key. The fact that you were not able to establish a threadfin population underlines the degree of overpopulation of bass.

On the bright side, at least you didn't find out that you had any northern pike in the lake!

It would be nice to see what data was collected, such as how many bluegill in each size class and as well as the data collected from the bass. 8000 bluegill would definitely boost the forage base. 8000 seems too high but then again it may be the best option for the pond. We typically recommend no less than 250 (4-5�) BG per acre but there are times I wish I could do many more than that, but like I said they are not cheap. When were the threadfin stocked and was the pond being fertilized at that time? You also mentioned you plan on liming and fertilizing once the weather is warm enough. That is correct for the fertilizer but I would go ahead and lime the pond now.

Yes a blocking net will work . See this thread. We have done repeatedly exactly what you are describing.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=5690&Number=52295#Post52295

Also Pond Boss mag has several articles on blocking nets and forage ponds.

There are other threads here on what to expect with supplemental stockings (not using a blocking net) and how to establish TShad in a pond with adult predators.

agree like to see data. My first thought however is what are your goals? This to me is the most important question to give you solid answers.

If wanting big bass the proposal is fine if budget allows (but best after reachign bass harvest goals). My advice would be based on low Wr bass and lack of 4-5 inch bluegill.

1. harvest bass at a hgih rate
2. lime pond asap- begin fertilization
3. if bass numbers are low stock threadfin shad
4. stock 4-5 inch bluegill at a rate of 250-1000/acre. Whatever budget allows- more the merrier.
It is possible to growout the bluegill and save some money. Most of my cllietns would not have the time to do this. If you think it is a project you might enjoy doable but also be aware many scenarios can presnt themselves where you lose all the little 1-2 inch bluegill before reaching your goals of growth.

We do not get down that way too often but Josh will be not too far away in Troy, AL tommorrow on fish delivery of bluegill.

He Who Shocks Also Stocks. Guess he could have said you need 20,000. I like my "looks like he hooked you" line better, but that is classic yolk. I like it.

Yolk said "The fact that you were not able to establish a threadfin population underlines the degree of overpopulation of bass." .

More likely the reason TShad did not establish was lack of a plankton bloom. That is critical to success in ponds for TShad. In attempts to establish TShad in ponds with adult LMB assuming you stock as per the #s instructed the success rate is very high if there is a plankton bloom and almost 0 if there is not one. See this link from the archives.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=9999&Number=106122#Post106122

Agreed Eric. I also suspect a stocking problem with the Threadfins. They are usually(?) stocked as tiny fry. If they don't eat immediately, they are goners.

Very interesting, thanks for bringing this up. I'm going to try to establish threadfins in a 3 acre bass heavy [despite my ongoing efforts] pond this spring-will get it to bloom first for sure.

guys i'm still working on getting the report together, but the responses so far seem to be very helpful.
What info will you need to see in the report so I don't have to type the whole thing?

Reports says the following, sample bass taken of 100 fish 22 were 11 inch long 22 were 12 inch long 18 were 13 inches long only two were 15 inches long, those were the two bigges from the sample we shocked up
Bream of roughly 100 sample fish only about 35 were above the six inch mark and 50 were just 2-3 inches long,

All bass were in the skinny range and none were listed as FAT

the plan calls for the harvest of 280lbs of bass per yr.
stock 8000 intermediate BG also says stock threadfin
Fertilize and Lime the lake to make bloom.

any thoughts you have are welcomed, Thanks

did they run a releative wieght index on the bass? Again was this southeastern pond mgmt or not? If so I trust their answers if someone else who knows.

Also I can not give advice without knowing your goals? If big bream is goal ( and I dont thin it is) the advice would be totally different.

It sure looks like the pond is packed with BG eatin' machines.

Greg asked the most relavent question: What are your goals?

If you just want to catch a bunch of fish at any given time, a pond full of bass in this range can be a blast...but if you're wanting some quality fish, the single most helpful contribution will likely be removing as many of those bass as possible. Most 12-13" bass can eat a 4" BG, so it's likely that a lot of your forage will simply be consumed before it has the chance to reproduce.

A reasonable strategy, again assuming you want larger bass, would be to remove as many of the bass as possible in the next few months [minnows/bobbers], lime now, fertilize within a few weeks of stocking threadfins to assure a really good bloom when the fish go in, then continually hammer the bass population for the rest of your life. You've already got a fair number of spawning sized BG-with removal of a lot of the small to midsized predators, and a good bloom to sustain fry, you might not need to add any BG at all, though I'd value the opinion of an expert like Greg or Ewest on that subject.

I posted a link early in this thread on how we fixed the problem in one pond with blocking nets. We also shocked another pond and moved some adult BG to this pond. Have also tried (1) the small BG approach with the understanding that around 5 % will survive to adult spawning size and (2) by adding 3-5 inch BG at 250 per acre. Any of these will work if accompanied with LMB removal. IMO the blocking net method works best , costs less but requires the most effort.

Our goals are to have a big bass lake, it was South eastern Pond
releative wieght index, yes they did do this almost all of bass were in the skinny range none were listed as Fat.
Of course the goal is to save a little money, 10K we could fix the problem and all would be good, but we don't want to spend that much right now. I do know if we do nothing else we need to lime and fertilize for two reasons, one for the fish and two for the pond weed, it's to the point in the summer where it has almost taken over half the lake. the bloom will stop sun penitration and slow down the weed growth.

I would definitely do a heavy bass harvest before they spawn, and before I would sacrifice a few thousand bluegill to them.
Then, with that sized lake, I would block off areas to growout bluegill, shiners, and possibly shad.

all ideas make good sense to me, we will hit the bass hard this spring and try to get as many out before spawn as possible, then get the bloom and put up a blocking net for the bream. hopefully this will work.

ok don't forget lime takes several months to totally help the water quailty. This is something that needs to be done asap.

I agree with Greg about getting the lime in now. That should be #1 on your list along with putting the hammer on those small bass. I would guess that not establishing a good plankton bloom prior stocking the tshad last year contributed as much as anything to the lack of survival. The lack of plankton (food for shad) and abundance of weeds (ambush points for bass) probably doomed them from the beginning. If your alkalinity is low you cannot establish a proper bloom, no matter how much fertilizer.

-HH