Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Dead fish...

Hi, I have a 3/4 ac pond with 6,12,and 18 ft depths, and an areator with a clay bottom and water from the well. I have had the pond full of water with the areator running for a year now with no fish put in. I have water oak tree limbs (very large) from 20 to 40 ft long and concrete scrap from a foundation placed at several different depths. I live in north florida and I finally put in 500 bluegill, 160 shell cracker and about 2500 minnows on 1-7-2010 from Shongaloo Fisheries in Hampton, Fl. which from what I can tell is a reputable fishery. I planned to put in 3-500 crawfish in june or so and 3-500 more bream at that time. By 1-1-2011 I plan to put in 50-75 bass and 250 crappie or pearch depending on who is listening. The hope is to have 5lb bass in less than 5 years, I hope. I have been feeding about a quart size container of FRM 38% CATFISH FINGERLING CRUMBLES every other day since 1-12-2010. I have seen no fish feeding at all on the food, none. There is approx.3 to 5 ft of visability in the pond. I thought things were going well due to the fact that I started smelling the strong odor of fish (not dead smell) last week which I assumed was a sign of spawning. Now in the last 3 days I have found 9 fish dead. It is obvious that they died at different times and they are not all the same types of fish. I noticed a few days ago that I had what looked like a zoo plankton bloom that was only on the surface for about 30 hrs or so, it went away very fast. I dont know weither I should be extremly worried or just so-so enough to keep an eye on things to see if they get worse. Anyone have opinions they would like to share?

Hello rcn11thacr and welcome to Pond Boss. Sorry to hear it's bad news that brought you here. Hang on and one of the experts will be along to talk with you.

You mention "water oak tree limbs" I'm not sure what you mean by that. In certain circumstances oak can release tannins that I believe can be toxic to fish. But that may have absolutely nothing to do with what happened.

There are also types of algae blooms that can be toxic to fish as well.

But as I said hang on for an expert opinion.

Thanks jeff, I have been here a while and been a pond boss subscriber for longer than that.

Excellent to hear, then you know the drill. Glad to having you joining in and posting. (And if you've been here a while you'll know better than to trust my opinion).

jeff, water oak is just one of the many types of oak tree that we have growing round here. I used it due to the fact that it was convenient, ie.. the tree fell over in a storm and I didnt want to burn all of it and I felt that a "currently living" limb from a tree would last lots longer under the water of my pond than an old half rotten one. If there is something toxic about them please speak up so I can get them out of the pond asap. as far as the type of algie bloom? I dont have a clue. All I can say is it seemed greasy looking with lots of small bubbles in clumps on the surface of the water.

Well water can sometimes not be suitable for fish. Have you had the water tested to make sure it is appropriate for fish? Aeration is a good thing, particularly in a warm climate like FL. Oaks produce tannins, placing them in the water can leach the tannins into the water. Depending on just how much oak limb you have in your pond, can affect water quality. Usually a lowering of the pH and causing the water to be coffee colored. The use of the concrete scrap may actually help counteract that affect though. Concrete has the opposite affect raising the pH of water. It is hard to tell what the affect of those two items may be on the water quality...

The number of sunfish(BG and RES) you've already stocked is enough to establish your fishery. You won't need to add any more IMO. What size where the BG and RES when you stocked them? What species of minnow did you stock? Fathead minnows, golden shiners or another species?

If you are trying to grow mostly nice sized bass, I would not stock any crappie. Crappie are very difficult to manage in ponds and often lead to stunted masses of crappie with all other species suffering. You can consider adding the crawfish when you can find some to purchase. When you mention perch, are you referring to the other common name for crappies, speckled perch or yellow perch, white perch or the other common name for sunfish?

If you are looking to grow nice bass, I would probably stock closer to 50 bass rather than 75. Since you are in FL, you have the option of stocking FL LMB. I am not sure just how far north you are, but you can also consider using F1 LMB as well. If you're too far south, I'd stick with pure FL LMB as they are native to that part of FL. Stocking them this upcoming fall or winter would work well if you stocked 2"-4" sunfish this month. If they were adult sunfish, I'd probably stock them a little earlier.

Had the fish been feeding the first few days after stocking and then stopped feeding? Have you received a recent cold front that has dramatically reduced the air and subsequently the water temperature? There is a unique smell you can sometimes smell when particularly sunfish spawn. However, this is not the time of year sunfish or bass typically spawn in north FL. And unless you stocked adult fish, your fish wouldn't be able to spawn yet.

With the large number of fish you just stocked some mortality is to be expected. 9 fish is not an overly high number. Continue to monitor your pond but nothing sounds too overly concerning IMO. Let's see what some of the other members have to say.

Welcome. When did the oak limbs go in and how many and size ? I doubt that is the problem in that much water. Did you get the cold spell with rapid temp drop ? Are the dead fish Fla LMB and CNBG ?

There have been a lot of recent tropical fish kills in south florida. Was the pond just built? maybe there were some other fish in there?

*Oops I just re-read and see thats not likely.

Not likely that oak tanin is the problem. It USUALLY blackens the water.

I suspect something else in your pond environment.

rcn

I suspect that with the recent hard freezes we have had and the fact that this stressed already stressed fish (transport/new environment/predators/etc) you were bound to have a few morts. 9 out of 3160 is not bad. Don't think it is the oak. Friend with a much smaller pond also had some morts with the rapid weather change. Check the temp of your pond, I will almost guarantee that its cold enough to shut down the supplemental feeding. Also sent you a pm

"You can consider adding the crawfish when you can find some to purchase." I have my name on the fishery list for when they come in. "When you mention perch, are you referring to the other common name for crappies, speckled perch or yellow perch, white perch or the other common name for sunfish?" Yes, just refering to the white/black crappie. The F1 bass would be great but from what i've read there is too much fuss over how to ensure weither you really have F1 or another type of bass. I doubt there is too much difference in the taste if you ask me...
"What size where the BG and RES when you stocked them? What species of minnow did you stock?" Fathead minnows and the others were about 2 inch or so. I am not shooting for record size bass above all others, just looking to have more than one type of predator in the pond and im not too fond of cleaning catfish. The color of the water is/has been a light blue/greenish color.

Skip the crappies or speckled perch, what ever you wanna call them... Sunfish(bluegills and redears) at 2" are not mature in all likelihood and won't spawn. Give them the growing season to put on size and they may pull off a spawn sometime this year. Stock your bass this fall or upcoming winter. Reputable sources can assure you F1 bass. Forum member Greg Grimes who owns Aquatic Environmental Services-http://lakework.com/ shouldn't be too far from you over the border in GA. He has good quality fish and can provide you with F1 bass. But, like I said, if you are further south, you should only stock FL LMB as they are the native bass to that area. There is no difference in taste, but there is a difference in the characteristics of FL, F1 and northern LMB. If you are looking for another predator for your pond besides bass, look at HSB(hybrid striped bass) or as they are often called in Florida, sunshine bass.

Well if it was not the bg spawning I wonder if it was the minnows? They spawn every 16-28 days from what im told. I live in Lake City, Fl. which is only 45 minutes from ga. if your going on I-75.

If you stocked FHM, it is very possible they were spawning. It doesn't take much to get them to spawn... Your BG will probably spawn in early to mid March if I had to guess from where you are located. That is if they are mature. If they were stocked at 2" they won't be mature yet.

Spawning for both BG and LMB is highly variable from north to south. In far south Fla spawning can be most anytime and BG are capable of spawning every 30 days (20 days +- after correct temp and photoperiod). Given the recent cold snap I doubt that is what happened however. More likely if any it was the FH. In your location my guess is the fish kill was due to recent stocking stress plus cold snap.

ewest, don't the BG need to be 4"-5" or larger to be old enough to pull off a spawn?

Size isn't always the biggest factor. Age is usually more important... You could have badly stunted 3" BG spawning. Or you could have very fast growing YOY 4" BG not quite ready to spawn.

I won't put any oak, especially bark in any of my ponds. Indians used to strip it and toss it in ponds for fish kills. Might not be it, probably not but no oak here. Concrete rip rap can be good, but it can leach out some nasties also. With that small death rate I doubt you made toxic soup. Transport and plant usually has some deaths, just the way it works. I might have to reread this but I did not see if you mentioned equalization.

When fish arrive they are usually stressed. It is the most vulnerable time of all. Three things that get them is temperature differential, lactic acid overload and ionic shock. Plus poor or rough handling. Just a few floaters is normal. I think you will be ok. Give them some time to acclimate to thier new surroundings and they will probably start feeding well. Good Luck, sound like a nice pond.

Not in the south. In a new pond stocked in the spring with 2 in BG you will often get a fall spawn from some of those fish. They will do everything they can to fill the pond with BG.