Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain PA Pond - SMB/YP stocking schedule & timing

My newly dug 1 acre pond will be filled this spring. In reading all the SMB/YP threads on the forum I�ve decided to go that route myself. Of course FHM will be the first to go in, but what about the stocking schedule of the other forage species, GSH and YP? Should I stock FHM and GSH together this spring, YP in the fall, then SMB next spring? Would there be any benefit to stocking advanced size YP with hopes of a spawn in 2011?

Why GSH?

While I like those species I question if SMB can control the #s of both the YP and GShiners. Doc Willis has reminded us that in some cases SMB have not controlled YP. There is however the human element which can make a huge difference in a small pond. It could work especially if you feed pellets.

IIRC in the Doc Cornwell PB articles no YP were used. Just FH , Shiners and SMB. I need to check that to be sure.

The addition of a few HSB to the mix if desirable could help control the YP and GSH and add some variety to the fishery.

Good advice Travis

Honestly, we need some good, long-term studies of SMB predatory capabilities in ponds. We just don't have them. I know that probably seems strange to some of the Forum members. However, general pond management is very different Bill Cody taking a small pond, and working his magic with mechanical removals, feeding, etc. He's just plain good.

We'll have the preliminary results of our SMB-pumpkinseed pond study in the May-June issue of the magazine. I think Bob is planning a "panfish" issue. How's that for a possible "tantalizing tidbit?"

Habitat conditions have a lot to do with predatory capabilities of the SMB and or YP. Both have predatory tendencies depending on the size of each sportfish. Without a good supply of continual optimum sized forage (inverts, small fish and or pellets) the growth rates of a size class will "suffer". Diversity of forage items is also important to the above combination. Keep in mind that SMB tend to exhibit a low tendency for cannibilaism which can lead to high numbers of smallies, if they remain in the pond, they need to be fed. Dr. Willis often sees an overpopulation of SMB in smaller waters that he studies. IMO I predict we will see that the SMB pumpkinseed combination is not an ideal combination for producing a pond with numerous bigger, higher Wr smallies. Lusk's and Chris Steelmans's experimental SMB smaller ponds in TX will add to our knowledge of smallies in ponds esp southern ponds.

That's intresting Bill. My SMB have to be knocking off their YOY. I see very large numbers of yoy smb in spring & early summer but they drasticly thin out in late summer. Enough survive so that I appear to have the ratios you suggest in your PB articles.

I'm not saying that SMB don't eat little smallies. It is just they eat a low percentage of their young compared to some of the other predators such as LMB, walleye and a few others.
Ric, any other predators in the pond to reduce the number of YOY smallies?.

The RES will eat SMB fry up to about 2-3 inches.

Eric:

Clarification please. are you saying The RES will eat SMB up to about 2"-3" long or that the RES that are up to 2"-3" long will eat SMB fry?

Option A

RES will eat any SMB it can fit in its mouth. Small RES will eat SMB eggs/fry/yoy and so will larger RES. Adult RES will eat SMB up to 2-3 inches limited only by gape limits.

Man, that'd suck to know you have $2-3 fish getting eaten in your pond.

A 10 inch LMB will cost more than that and they get eaten all the time by big LMB.

Only RES. Some of them are I'd guess 12"+. I hadn't thought of that so I guess that could be it.
I did try to establish YP but only observed 3 survivors for sure with the largest prob. 5" in Sept. this year.
Thanks ewest.

Really? That often? I can imagine an occasional 'casualty' from a really hungry, aggressive and big LMB, but I didn't realize it was that common.

But around here a 10" LMB is a dime a dozen, while any SMB, no matter what size is hard to come by. Didn't realize a mid size LMB was that much.

In ponds with LMB as the top predator big LMB eat many 10 inch type LMB. Ten inch LMB from the hatchery can be pricey. Not as much as 10 inch SMB but more I would guess than 4 inch SMB.

Cool Eric. Thanks.

Well my pond filled and turned out to be slightly over 3/4 acre.



The FH went in as planned about 6 weeks ago and are reproducing rapidly. Now the pressure is on to decide on a fall stocking plan.

I'm thinking...

(200) PK shrimp ASAP since I have some submerged vegetation at the inflow

then Sept.-Nov.

(50) SMB
(50) YP

Maybe throw in a few RES too, but I think I'm close to the northern edge of their range.

jsec, just so you know, if you want, you can come to my pond in Somerset and catch a mess of YP to put into your pond.

I might be able to let you have a few smaller SMB also.

(BTW, I'm not trying to invite myself to your pond! The invite to my pond is no-strings attached!)

Sunil,

Thanks for the invite but from my perspective a good bit of the fun of pond building comes from watching it evolve and grow, so I rather enjoy working from the bottom up.

Maybe in a year or two when my schedule isn't as hectic I'll take you up on that offer.

Did you stock any GSH? My concern is that your 50 SMB and 50 YP will eat through the FHM rather fast. What size will the SMB and YP be at stocking?

CJ,

I haven't stocked any GSH yet, I thought I'd get the FH off to a good start first. How many GSH would you suggest? The pond filled on May 20, will it support a GSH population at this point?

I suppose I'll get the smallest size SMB & YP available, not sure what that would be. I had planned on contacting Rainman to see if he was coming this way in the fall.

Would the timing be better if I waited until spring 2011 to stock predators?

I would stock 2 or 4 pounds of 2"-4" GSH. That would get you off to a great start if. If you stock small, say 2"-4" SMB and YP I think you will be OK. Make sure you have plenty of spawning structure for your FHM. Broken bricks, cinder blocks, plywood etc, laid in 6"-18" of water will work great. You want them spawning like crazy all summer long. If you stock your GSH soon, they may spawn this year but I wouldn't count on it. Sourcing SMB can be a real trick... Stock them this fall if you can find them. If Rex cannot make it out your way, check locally... If you need some places to check let me know and I will give you some place to check. Good luck!