Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain Frogs, Tadpoles and more Frogs

Are frogs & Tadpoles good forage for LMB? I have a Billion of them, Well maybe thousands.

Frogs and tadpoles got really scarce in my first pond once the LMB were big enough to eat them (IIRC, after about one growing season after being stocked at 3"-4").

I have lots of frogs and thousands of bullfrog tadpoles in my second pond now with 10"-12" SMB. It will be interesting to see if/when the SMB will thin them out.

I had a black cloud of toad tadpoles in the pond this Spring, 18" wide and probably 300' long. The smaller LMB and BG thinned them down to almost nothing in less than 2 months.

I was told a while back that if your pond has a lot of frogs, it probably doesn't have a lot of big bass.

Not sure I know where you're going there. Is that to say that if you have a lot of big bass you will have fewer frogs, or if you have a lot of frogs the bass aren't big enough to eat them yet??? Curious.

Both. Big bass will eat the frogs so if you have a lot of frogs, chances are you don't have a lot of big bass. Or so I've been told.

How about salamanders? I have a ton of them.

Salamanders would tell you the same story I believe, maybe even worse considering they aren't near as allusive as frogs can be which means it won't take a big fish to prey on it. I had salamanders in an aquarium with some 8" bass and they went to town on them, eventually killing them by nipping their tails and feet off. So the abundance of salamanders could indicate even fewer desirable fish are present in the BOW. But I'm new to this, so wait for a second opinion before you take it as truth.

Are they salamanders or newts?

I just read a little about newts and salamanders. My pond has red-spotted newts; fish don't eat them since they appear and are mildly poisonous. They look just like this picture:


I wondered why they could just float in the water and not get eaten. I've seen them more often lately, maybe since they start breeding in the late fall.

I was out at my pond the other day and it had some very large tadpoles, I didnt know they got that big, unless it was something else. But they were about twice the size of a golf ball, and very slow. I hope they will be easy to catch food for my LMB going into winter.

My opinion on this matter is, if you have them great its forage, if you dont its probably because your fish have already cleaned them out.

"She turned me into a newt."

"You don't look like a newt."

"Well, I got better!"

Now there's a softball pitch for someone!

Newts are mildly poisonous... Their land dwelling form, the red eft are even more poisonous, so nothing eats them... If you have ever seen a red eft, they are gorgeous!

Bull frogs have very large tadpoles that have a very soft, velvety feel. They are fat and slow. They are usually in the tadpole stage for 2 years before turning into adults.

The adults make the very recognizable Rum-Rum-Rum sound. It is a pleasant, relaxing sound to hear at night. I hate to see them wiped out by hungry fish.

That said, what are some ways to protect some of the frogs and toads? A friend of mine wants to fence off a small bay so the bigger fish can't get in and eat the adults and tadpoles. Unfortunatley, there is no way to educate the toads and frogs to stay within the "safe zone".

Another way of accomplishing the same thing may be to add a smaller shallow pond with no fish stocked in it that is right next to the main pond or attached with a very shallow channel that won't let the bigger fish in. Again, there is no way to make sure the frogs and toads will stay in the safe area. At least if there is an earth barrier, the tadpoles can't enter the main pond.

A separate shallow pond or wetland area would be the best option. Any kind of connection to the main pond and it will end up with fish. One flood event and you're gonna get fish making it their new home. Stock some mudminnows or topminnows to keep the mosquitoes under control...

Thank you for mentioning the mosquitoe control. The frogs and toads will help but they also need help from minnows.

This brings to mind another question. Do the minnows have to be mudminnows or topminnows? Can a person use this safe haven to raise fathead minnows (instead of mudminnows or topminnows) and use them as feed stock for the bass in the main pond as well as for mosquitoe control?

Fred

According to everything I've read here FHM will control your mosq problems just as well as any other species...including Gambusia, and are far cheaper and more readily available probably.

My upper pond had hundreds of newts until fish were introduced. Then you only see an occasional one.
These newts had feathery gills.
The pond now has fhm & grass shrimp & I'm begining to see a few newts.

Fred, you can definitely use FHM in place of the mudminnows or topminnows. They will breed like rabbits so you will have to seine some out to feed your bass. Otherwise your pond will be nothing but a swarming mess of stunted FHM...

Sounds good to me. Now I need to figure out where I can put a small, shallow pond. I am thinking of maybe burying a large kid's plastic swimming pool and adding fertilizer to enable plankton to grow. Should I add a layer of soil? How deep should the water be? Do I need to add a sand or gravel substrate?

Look into getting some pond liner from Lowe's or another source. Then you can shape the pond exactly how you want it. Remember, if it is very shallow with no areas deeper than at least 3 or 4 feet, even FHM would be liable to winter kill with no deep water areas during ice over. Shouldn't affect the frogs and tadpoles though. I have found lined ponds do not support near the biodiversity of amphibians than a earthen pond does though. I would find an area that is natural moist and just excavate it a bit... I recommended the mudminnows and topminnows as that is there exact niche... You won't need to stock many of them. If you need a source for a handful, I can give you a place to buy them. Just a half dozen to dozen would do.

Monte Python and the Holy Grail...I love that movie!!!

My experience with frogs in southern Michigan has more to do with birds. My first year pond has nothing in it but GS. Lots of GS. (no predators) Last spring I put in some tadpoles from a near by puddle and combined with what otherwise found their way in, by mid summer the frogs were thick. Walking the pond perimeter was fun just to see the abundance of frogs jumping into the water from the banks. However, not too many weeks after noticing GB Herons (2), and at least one Egret, prowling the shore line, I began to notice the frog population had dramatically declined. This in spite of the fact that I had purchased a fake Heron in anticipation of the bird problem.

I had previously noticed Herons on the Lake I live on, consuming some really large frogs. My point here is that there are more things eating frogs (and small fish and minnows) than just LMB. Keep your eyes open for birds.

I am not by any means a fish expert, but based on my experience in central Indiana, I would recommend creating a shallow earthen wetland near the existing pond devoid of any fish. I created one above my pond and seperated it from the main pond with a berm, more to keep fish out than to keep water in (good clay base). The aquatic insects and other non-fish critters keep mosquitoes out. I have not seen a single larvae in the wetland. It fills with tadpoles in the spring and early summer, but thins out as the season progresses, perhaps due to green and blue heron predation and turtles. Frogs and toads are everywhere around it. I have two additional shallow ponds (less than 5 feet deep) that have been contaminated with fish from a nearby stream (during a flood). So far the bluegill have survived the winters, but I am hoping the recent cold snap will knock them back. I love the LMB, CC, and BG in my pond, but they really hammer amphibians. No need to have fish in a wetland to control mosquitoes in my area, at least once the wetland fills with preditory insects. If you do not have a clay base for a wetland, you may be able to connect it to your pond with a trench filled with pea gravel. You could then build a substantial berm over the trench between the pond and wetland to keep the two from becoming connected during floods. Need to put a filter fabric over the pea gravel before covering with dirt. Just some ideas from an amature...

I swear by Frogs. Especially American Bullfrogs. I have seen a balanced pond with a great LMB population and frogs also. Frogs are normally on the bottom of the food chain. Especially baby ones and polliwogs. Snakes and birds can really reduce thier numbers. Also lack of cover and poor water quality. I stock them wherever I can for forage. I even stock them in non forage areas so I can relocate them later. I think one of the most important factors is food and cover. If they have no cover they just don't make it to breeding size.