Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose New Texas Pond

Here's the facts;

1) Existing 15 yr. old, 1.5 acre pond with LMB and BG.
2) Most bass are 12" with few in 16"-18" slot.
3) Most BG are 6"-8".
4) New pond is 3.5 acres. 22' max depth with 3/1 sloping banks.
5) New pond gets its water from overflow of exisitng pond.
6) Stocked CNBG, RES and FHM this fall in new pond as forage.
7) Old pond and new pond are currently ecologically separated by means of beaver dam on the old pond overflow.
8) Would like to have a fishery of something other than LMB.
9) YP, HSB, Tilapia et al are very interesting as I have done the LMB scene for years and would like a change.
10) In the dark about the YP.

I was told that ewest would have the best advice but I will welcome any and all that may help. Aeration I am told is the key to YP survival and growth.

SMB???

Just keep in mind that if the lower pond gets overflow from the upper pond and they're not a long way apart, fish are going to get from the upper pond to the lower pond.

This might not be that big of a deal with the LMB, because you can keep the population in check yourself if you're able to fish the lower pond regularly.

HSB would be an interesting alternative to LMB, accepting the fact that they are a "put and take" species and an annual stocking "ladder" would be required to always have catchable 3-5 fish.
I believe that James Holt is consistantly growing large HSB.
They are a great sport fish, especially on fly tackle.

From what we are hearing & seeing, you just might be able to stock SMB. AaronM did great with them in a small pond in Phoenix AZ. He did also have a killer water filtration system as his pond was like 1/10 acre.

As Cody states in his recent article on smallies, the LMB eventually take over when they are present with smallies.

I have that same situation going on in my pond now and am getting ready to do a restocking of smallies while implementing a strict LMB slot limit removal plan.

I'm OK w/ restocking smallies every few years.

Like george says, the HSB are a no-brainer addition in my opinion.

David, if you go with YP, try to find a genetic source from the south. YP are native almost to the gulf coast. Try to find a supplier with YP of those genetics and they may do just fine in your north Texas pond. I am a big fan of HSB and think you'll enjoy them as long as you realize they will require restocking every year or other year...

The last time I stocked HSB was maybe 3-4 years ago.

They're still in there and they are big and bad.

The only reason I could think of, in my case, to do a restocking of HSB now would be to have some different sized HSB to catch. But I'm not sure that I have a need to catch a smaller HSB.

In essence, I'm saying that the choice to stock HSB on a yearly or every-other-year basis would be personal preference.

I would love to have smallies in our ponds but HSB are harder fighters but they don't jump...
I'm very familiar with the geology and soil types in DavidV's area, from pictures IIRC are Post Oaks being in the Post Oak Savanna geographic area (David correct me if I am wrong) and in transitionnal Tertiay sand and clay area.
Great for water quality but a LONG way to haul rocks for smallies.

Good point, george.

But then again, when it's a labor of love, what can't be done?

Smallies don't need rocks unless you want them to spawn. Could stock the smallies with the assumption they won't spawn. That is what I am doing in one pond. No rock structure at all. I don't want the smallies to spawn. But at .4 acres the pond is small and I want to manage the predator numbers closely.

George,

You are correct that I am in the Post Oak Savannah. The soil is clay with a sand covering of about 3". Great for water runoff.During the construction of the new pond, we uncovered several large boulders which are currently stacked along one side for seating and visual effects. What kind of rocks would I need to bring in for SMB to spawn? I did lay some stones (the type used on the exterior of strip retail building you see around here) at a couplpe of spots at 4' depth.

I fly fish my pond quite a bit. Would love to get a decent size HSB on the end of a 3wt rod. Do you have any experience with YP at your place?

George, will a 3 wt. be large enough for the HSB?

David,I would be be more concerned with our high nutrient levels and turbid waters than rocky spawning areas for smallies, but sure would be a fun experiment.

No experience with YP - I have a love affair with pure Florida mojo CNBG geneteics.
Sounds to me you are having fun with your ponds ...

Scott, the only time I would fish a 3wt fly rod for HSB would be in water temps at or below 60 degrees.
They will fight to their death in warmer temps unless landed quickly, resusitated and released.

Ok a 7wt then.

David...looks like you are getting some great guidance here. Hope you received my recommendations yesterday responding to your PM.

FYI - even the 12" HSB i was catching this Spring were putting my ultra light gear to the ultimate test. I think they are easily 15" by now. Next Summer these should be in excess of 18" easily and I doubt I'll be able to mess around with UL tackle as a HSB [according to Condello, George, etc.] is known to fight itself to such exhaustion they can die. Important to employ the right size tackle so you can effect a clean quick release I'm thinking.

Got it TJ and appreciate your input. How many HSB do you think I should put in this Spring?

Here are my thoughts on that question: Determining stocking qty all depends on the availability of your forage base, if you are going to supplement with feeding program [which I encourage], presence of other apex predators, and your goals - do you want to harvest some, or leave them to grow to trophy status? IE: High forage base, plus feeding, plus low presence of predators, and harvest plan = higher qty/acre stocking. And this works inversely, obviously, also.

Some other considerations: If your resident LMB are large you'll need to stock advanced HSB fingerlings to avoid predation from LMB. If your LMB are small - you can get away with stocking higher qty of smaller, cheaper HSB, and they won't end up serving as a snack for the green carp...er, LMB.

The two most important stocking considerations in HSB stocking, in agreement with TJ, is to stock 8+ inch HSB to avoid predation and to establish an "annual stocking ladder" to maintain consistant large HSB for sport fishing.
Numbers stocked dependent upon havest and mortality considerations.

IMO an agressive feeding program is required to meet these objectives.

Travis, I have never heard of YP in Texas. Of course, there are a lot of things that I haven't heard of.

Here's my NE attempt to address a TX situation:

YP are cool water fish - but they still thrive in NE with water temps reching close to those of Dallas I should think [if summer average temps are any indication]. Bruce mentioned he even pulled off a YP spawn in his Dad's aerated pond this Spring. Bruce's fish in his main pond are 2.5 lbs. Mine grew from 4-6" to 9-12" in 12 mos. Do you think aeration could prove the factor to allow YP to make it in TX? This in addition to Travis' warm water tolerant strain of YP might work?

One other thing to consider is the size of David's existent LMB. If there are any size to them fusiform YP could prove an expensive snack [see HSB fingerlings]. You'd have to find some decent sized YP to stock if one has an existing LMB population with any size...

But I live in NE, what do I know.

David,

Looks like you got some good input already. You may also consider rainbow trout through the winter, starting around Thanksgiving and they'll give you about 6 months before they melt.

The HSB idea is a good one but get a water test for hardness first. Needs to be at least 20ppm. Clint might have tested your water when he brought you those fish, or maybe he tested your shallow ground water with the truck tires,....or was it fermented grain mixed with water that he tested?

You are in a good position to try some lake chubsuckers as forage fish in the new pond also....

I will try to get my pond up to 20 ppm hardness. Hardness disappeared several years ago. Maybe a little pond Viagra will do the trick! Bring on the trout and the "suckers" especially the ones from A&M!!! See you in the Spring.

Yellow perch are native to Alabama. It gets perty darn hot in Alabama. So I would think if you get a southern strain of YP, they should do fine in TX. As far as if YP are found native in TX, I don't believe so. Then again, FL LMB, tilapia, and FL BG aren't either... The big question is if it's legal to stock YP in Texas waters?

To the best of my knowledge, the only regulated fish in Texas are tilapia (Mozambique only) and grass carp.