Thanks the snails are out. It was a little bit of work but 4 of us caught the 50 BG in about two hours. It wouldn�t be too hard to do that one or two more times. I do not have a source for RG because the ponds I know that have them also have HBG, GSF, and Crappie, so I don�t want to risk it. With all the little cousins and nephews available I could get the crayfish and frogs for free while providing hours of wholesome entertainment for them. If I do go with shiners should I stock them this fall or wait till spring?