Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Crazy fish!

Ken Henneke stocks Rio Grande Perch according to his website.

There's very little information available on them as a pond species. They're a cichlid, but wikipedia indicates that the RGP are a little bit more cold-tolerant than Mozambique Tilapia, only spawn once a year, and mature at 6" or so. Maybe it could overwinter in a central Texas pond? Not sure how they'd do with serious predation.

It'd be interesting to try them out and see what happens. If you can't find a hatchery with them you could check out the Guadalupe River and try to catch some.

Reds have to be 15" because the smaller ones cannot tolerate the low salinities. However I think the point is mute as even larger fish wouldn't survive in a smaller pond. It would just get too cold. The bigger lakes that are cooling reservoirs stay hotter because of that and also stay a more steady temp, something a smaller pond won't do.

The bull shark is the species that can tolerate freshwater the best. They have been found as far north as Illinois in the Mississippi.

Peacock bass would not survive in your part of Texas either. If you can't overwinter Mozambique Tilapia, you can't overwinter Peacocks.

That is the problem with the "exotic" pond fish... Where do you get them from? Unless you have a wild source, you are SOL. I'd love to get my hands on some freshwater drum, but they are not found in the wild around here.

Esox species may do well in the southern lake or reservoir, but I am not so sure about them doing well in a smaller pond. Perhaps chain pickerel as they have a far south native range, but tigers or NP, I would be doubtful about.

In smaller ponds, HSB do fine until they hit 4 or so pounds. George can share his experiences. Once they get over that size, they require cooler higher DO waters and die. An old member Meadowlark has lots of HSB experience in Texas waters and experienced numerous die offs in the summer when the fish got larger.

Meadowlark also stocked Pacu and raved about them. I think he had to put them in a hot tub for the winter though.

Yeah, that's dedication...

Oscar, Jack Dempsey, Texas Cichlid...

Just noticed Rio Grande Perch was already mentioned... which is just another name for Texas Cichlid.

I can spend the rest of my life fishing for 4-5 lb HSB, the greatest small “put and take” pond fish introduced into small Texas ponds.

Who has a small LMB pond that you can consistently catch 3-5 lb fighting fish on a daily basis that are also excellent table fare?
A 3 lb HSB will out fight a 5 lb LMB and a 5 pounder will make the hair stand up on the back of your neck.
Of course I am a dyed in the wool fly fisherman.

For several years I have successfully raised HSB in a small ¼ pond with no aeration for transfer to 2-acre pond with aeration.

The “secret” for success for HSB in a “put and take” species pond is to create a annual “stocking ladder”, restocking desired numbers of 8+ inch HSB on late winter/early spring schedule.

CJ I have heard this "Once they get over that size, they require cooler higher DO waters and die." many times but the studies I have seen do not reflect that. The ones I have read indicate that HSB can do about as well as BG and LMB in ponds ( they all reached thermal max and/or DO critical level about the same time). One problem is the fight untill they die aspect of HSB which is more prone to occur in hot water. There is a tendancy in small ponds that HSB don't reach their max size potential but still may get to 8 lbs.

Can you direct me to any studies/info on the "Once they get over that size, they require cooler higher DO waters and die." ?

This is not a test but rather a search on my part to check the data to see for sure about the answer.

What type of forage grows HSB in a small pond?

AquaMax is one type of forage that'll work.

Haha, I guess that's true. And to create a decent put-and-take HSB fishery in a small pond, that'd probably be necessary. Do HSB take those big Aquamax Largemouth pellets? How do HSB do with golden shiners?

Unless there's a big difference between a pond in TX and a pond in TN (which is certainly possible), pike definitely can survive and thrive in a TN pond because I've done it. I'll readily grant that they might fare differently in TX; but I would think if the pond had a decent amount of deeper water and didn't suffer too excessively from drought, they would be okay.

Don't rest until you have a Rio Grande Perch / Northern Pike / Magnolia Crappie / Rainbow Trout / Redfish / Bull Shark based ecosystem stable in your pond!

p.s. does anyone know a hatchery that'll ship feed-trained Bowfin?

WahooBob

Not sure how south in texas you are but peacock bass do well here in Florida from about west palm beach down to the country of Miami. They are IMHO 5x the fight of a regular LMB. But remember they are an exotic/tropical and even though I am in Florida (G'ville) our winters get too cold (relatively, no comments from you midwesterners)

Once my ducks get in a row (which at this point is like herding cats) I am going to attempt a SMB/YP/HSB pond. Which no one around here has. I am confident It will work based on the opinions of the experts and what I have seen from fellow pondmeisters.

I can attest to this as well, caught a number of them in Fort Lauderdale in a smallish lake and they really threw a fun tantrum each time. And were delicious too.

I don't know if the 10 degree (approx.) difference in temp would make a difference between locales. I've heard peacock fingerlings surviving in as low temp water as 56.

Peacocks could be tried (if they're legal to stock) but I think it gets too cold in the winter. It'll be below 55F average air temp for about 70 days.

How quickly do Peacock Bass grow? Do they take feed? If memory serves, it'd be warm enough probably early March - late November for them to survive. Maybe you could stock advanced fingerlings in late March along with some Tilapia, feed intensively, then fish them all out by November? Or have some alternating system where you stock adult Rainbow Trout just as the Peacocks are about to die and Peacock as the Rainbows are about to die? That'd actually be pretty cool, as long as you had a feeder and didn't mind stocking constantly.

I'll look into a scientific study on that. Part of my statement is anecdotal as there are forum members with HSB who hit as you said the 5-8 pound mark and don't get any bigger. While in larger reservoirs where their is a cool water, higher DO refuge they reach the high teens and even low 20's.

HSB's parent's the white and striped bass both have juvenile stages that are far more tolerant of lower DO and higher temps than larger adults of the same species. Perhaps hybrid vigor allows the HSB to be a bit more tolerant of lower DO and higher temps even at larger sizes but only to a certain extent. A 5-8 pound HSB as George said will pull your arm off and fight like a champ, it is far from the maximum size that can be reached... Something is killing the fish before they hit their peak size and I don't think it is just catching them during the summer and over stressing them.

Ok i did some research peacocks can live as far north as 26degN Im at 28 deg north so I could maybe get lucky that would be super cool.

Definitely let us know when you make your decision and keep us updated. Would love to see how they work out for you.

Eric, here is the best study I could find to prove my point... http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/available/etd-05212003-112151/unrestricted/FinalThesisETD.pdf Check out pages 6-11 but the whole study is quite interesting. Anyone who is an HSB lover and or striped bass lover, there is a lot of interesting info in the study!

Just like with large striped bass, say those fish in excess of 15 pounds or so, large HSB say those fish in excess of 8 pounds require cool well oxygenated water. It appears HSB are a hair bit more tolerant of warmer lower DO waters than are full blooded stripers, but not by all that much...

Guys like Nate who are seeing rainbow trout hold over in some of the ponds and small lakes they manage could most likely see HSB grow to rather large sizes in those same lakes as they obviously have thermal and DO refuges for large HSB if they can also support trout. As long as those ponds and lakes have abundant food for the HSB to feed on while taking refuge, I suspect they could grow quite large!

Bruce, you've grown some rather large HSB over the years, any data on temps and DO in your ponds?

All you ever want to know or need to know about Striped Bass and Hybrids can be found in the American Fisheries Society publication "Culture and Propogation of Striped Bass and its Hybrids".
Pricy manual but necessary for serious discussions.

Points being raised about HSB mortality, DO and temperature tolerance has been discussed at great length previously by Condello, Overton, West and others.

I would recommend archival search for both academic and anecdotal informatioin regarding HSB.

George did you read the study in the link? I realize I am just a peon in the fish world in your eyes, but that study is pretty darn interesting and not found anywhere else...

I scanned it briefly - I rely on 20+ years Lake Texoma Striped Bass experience and more than 6 years pond HSB experience, as well as previous research of material from American Fisheries Society manual.
Have your researhed this lengthy publication?
If not, I highly recommend it.
I await Ewest's response.

Am I missing something George? Are you saying something in what you saw in my linked study does not match up with your 20+ years Lake Texoma Striped Bass experience and more than 6 years pond HSB experience as well as previous research of material from American Fisheries Society manual?

Having studied wildlife and fisheries science while at Penn State, I am rather familiar with the American Fisheries Society and their publications.

My apologies CJ.
It was not my intent to be condescending.
I appreciate your contributions to the forum – I am just bored with this subject that has been previously debated.