Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain Alternate forrage species

You guys can ask a lot of short questions in a couple sentences that ca require lengthy answers. Try one question at a time (at least for me). It takes quite a bit of time for multiple lengthy answers that are informative, have some substance and try to touch on the variables or "it all depends" conditions.

I'll address some of the ones I know the most about and that haven't been answered.
1.All fish including forage have to eat something within the pond system and most end up competing at one time or another with something else in the pond due to relatively small confined area and over-lap of feeding habits and "lifestyles" But we went over this before in detail from different angles in the topics of "Suckers" and "High diverisy-low diversity". The ideal types of forage are those that can reproduce abundantly and remain vulnerable to predation yet perpetuate and have minimal competition to sport fish or the prefered fish.

2. Eels will not reproduce in ponds as I know it. They need a marine stage. Eels are also predtory and have sharp teeth for catching fish.

3. Sculpins are mostly a cool or cold water fish that spawn in streams similar to most darters. Some darters do spawn in ponds such as the johnny darter but egg masses are small and they are not prolific. Adults never get much bigger than 2"-2.5" and cannot tolerate much predatory pressure for long term survival.

4. Alewives are very similar sized to threadfin shad. I think they have potential for producing bass and other larger predtors. Big draw back is lack of their panfish, sport, edible, feature. I do not see dieoffs as a big negative. When and if fish have periodic die-off, bass will gorge themselves on dying fish. Die off could be a plus preventing overpopulation of forage fish. They will compete heavily with all species who are eating zooplankton.

5. Pottsy is our current mudminnow "expert".

6. I agree with Scott about shiners, shad and bgill. Lots of very smart naturalists and fish raisers have been here before. What works, or has workded best,,,, is what is primarily recommeded the most.

7. Norm and Cover Questions. Some of this has been answered before but it has been mostly mixed in with other topic headings just as this answer will be; buried in the topic of "Alternate forrage species". I my opinion cover is sort of species specific. I say this because cover has or comes in many types and is used differently (behaviors) by different species. Plus many if not all species are somewhat adaptable TO A CERTAIN EXTENT to diferent types of cover when the need arises. So there are really no definates or absolutes here either.

When one talks about cover there are two basic types. FISH ATTRACTORS and REFUGE AREAS.

Fish Attractors are what most pondowners put in their pond as manmade materials for fish habitat which also includes coarse and finer tree brush. These are loose ("fluffy" as Lusk calls them) fitting structures with numerous openings and not very extensive in terms of square yards occupied (or % of pond bottom). These "manmades" serve primarily as ambush points for predators who hang out there waiting for smaller fish to arrive or exit.

Refuge areas are expansive areas containing dense tightly positioned materials that only small fish can easily enter / penetrate and many predators esp larger ones have a hard time penetrating navagitating. Refuge areas are primarily Nursery areas; places for small fish to live and grow. Predators thus live on the edges or perifery of refuge areas. Ideally refuge areas are areas where small fish can live, eat and grow and not encouter a predator of any size much bigger than themselves. One or even a dozen Christmas trees or evergreens are basically fish attractors. 40 to 100 of them together in less than 4 ft deep START to become a refuge area. Weed beds (underwater and emergent) are in my experience & opinion the only good refuge/nursery areas for ponds or small lakes. Underwater weeds that are too tightly compact and dense are in my opinion less desirable as refuge areas. The ideal weed beds should allow small fish to swim among the stems and leaves to feed and forage, yet always having relative or adquate protection. Some or even many weed species/beds are too compact (such as Chara, elodea(Anacharis), thick milfoil) to allow free movement of small and young YOY fish. Best weed beds are composed of eel grass and many of the looser open spacing style of pondweeds (Potomogeton) some types are called cabbage. These weeds beds can at times allow some predators to hunt among the weeds but small fish have a real good chance of escape in these lose but dense areas. Emergent weeds can provide some cover for small fish but the success of foraging for food of young fish is limited in these areas. By far the most diverse and abundant larger invertebrate food items occur in underwater, denser, leafy weed bed areas such as those mentioned above.

8. Amount of cover is relative. For an optimum "average" bass-bgill fishery, the research has shown that 30% to 40% of the pond bottom should contain weed growth. Up to around 40% coverage(depending of weed species) the bass and bgill populations will keep increasing and improving. Over 40% weed coverage weeds become too thick and bass have a too difficult time finding enough bgill, and then bgill are over protected and start becoming over abundant. Then bass populations start to decline. How to maintain long-term the 25% to 35% weed coverage is the BIG challenge. I also think having the proper weed species is very important to the overall success of this concept or process. Keep in mind that this reasearch was for bass-bgill populations and different percentages of weed coverage may be optimum for different species.

9. Another form of refuge for small fish is cloudy water. Sight feeding predators become less effective in cloudier water. Thus plankton blooms or murky water can serve as a refuge for small fish. If the predators can't find them they can't eat them.

10. I have raised fathead minnows and golden shiner together with some other fish in a 1/3 acre pond. Shiner eggs are laid unprotected and an over abundant fathead population will consume a majority if not all of the eggs from shallow weedy shoreline spawning areas. Once again proper types and amount of weed growth, proper fish density and proper food items are key to survival of eggs, fry, and YOY of both species when in combination.

11. Silversides are temperature tolerant and live in a unique niche. They will live in norhtern ponds that freeze over. They have potential as a forage species. However I think they are very predatory on lots of fish fry of all species. In other words, each mature silverside is capable of eating lots of fish fry when they are available.